AST's weakness in end game

[Kabzy]

I don't think whm has a better mp management than AST...

Can't agree with this at all. With the addition of Assize, MP is so much easier to manage on WHMs now. The only real way to get OOM is if you're not using Shroud/Assize when it's available or if you're overhealing like crazy. I thought MP management was a huge factor in learning WHM back in 2.x, and that's now relatable to AST only. Ewer is a very weak MP regen, and usually not even worth using unless you're in a very dire situation.

[Risvertasashi]

Can't agree with this at all. With the addition of Assize, MP is so much easier to manage on WHMs now. The only real way to get OOM is if you're not using Shroud/Assize when it's available or if you're overhealing like crazy. I thought MP management was a huge factor in learning WHM back in 2.x, and that's now relatable to AST only. Ewer is a very weak MP regen, and usually not even worth using unless you're in a very dire situation.

WHM has been an interesting journey in Heavensward. Right around level 57, it felt like I was healing with squirt gun in a drought. Even going back to say, Brayflox (normal/story mode in the level 30s), my heals feel more powerful and my MP pool less tiny. This kind of continued with the subsequent journey to i145 gear. It got better at i190, but I still had to pay attention.

Now, decked out in i210...even in a fight like Thordan EX... I just don't have to pay attention to my MP at all (unless I'm raising a lot of people), other than remembering to pop shroud now and then. It's almost like going from the i70 days at the beginning of ARR to AIW/dreadwyrm at the end in a single raid cycle. I suspect it's a combination of passive regen from piety and Assize scaling off MP total.

In any case, having taken both AST and WHM to A3S, it's definitely the former I have to be careful with my MP on.

[TatoRazzino]

You don't even need Ewers if tou time LA with CO because AST uses less MP than a WHM does. People just look to the tooltips and say "WHM has two MP buttons, AST has one. Therefore, WHM has better MP management than AST". WHM still starves more than AST, and I've played both; the difference is that you see numbers flashing as WHM, while AST is more passive about it.

[Risvertasashi]

You don't even need Ewers if tou time LA with CO because AST uses less MP than a WHM does. People just look to the tooltips and say "WHM has two MP buttons, AST has one. Therefore, WHM has better MP management than AST". WHM still starves more than AST, and I've played both; the difference is that you see numbers flashing as WHM, while AST is more passive about it.

Having raided on both, I have to flat out disagree.

It is more complex than the number of MP restore buttons though.

[TatoRazzino]

Having raided on both, I have to flat out disagree.

It is more complex than the number of MP restore buttons though.

CO adds about two refresh ticks for LA, which restores around 10% of your MP. If you're starving, you can line up those two skills 100% of the time. The amount of MP you save from Freecure procs matches what AST saves for lower MP cost for pretty much all healing spells. You can add Ewers to that. You probably have less MP problems with WHM because you're more used to it than you are to AST.

[Risvertasashi]

CO adds about two refresh ticks for LA, which restores around 10% of your MP. If you're starving, you can line up those two skills 100% of the time. The amount of MP you save from Freecure procs matches what AST saves for lower MP cost for pretty much all healing spells. You can add Ewers to that. You probably have less MP problems with WHM because you're more used to it than you are to AST.

I use the full toolkits of both jobs. The only thing I don't do on your post--I tend to prefer party buffs over self buffs, when RNG permits. Of course, if I really can't do anything else, I'll use the ewer.

edit: To be clear, I don't run out of MP on either job in the course of normal healing.

[AzureFlare]

edit: To be clear, I don't run out of MP on either job in the course of normal healing.

For clarity sake, what do you define 'normal healing' as? Just so we're all on the same page.

[technole]

I use the full toolkits of both jobs. The only thing I don't do on your post--I tend to prefer party buffs over self buffs, when RNG permits. Of course, if I really can't do anything else, I'll use the ewer.

edit: To be clear, I don't run out of MP on either job in the course of normal healing.

Same. I prioritize CO to buff the party when possible. I can't even remember the last time I use it to buff LA ticks because I generally don't need it either.

I'll even RR the Ewer even if my MP looks "low", but that is because of knowing the instance, damage upcoming, LA uptime, etc. Damage is sometimes the best mitigator anyway. As we healers know with fights like Thordan.

[AzureFlare]

Well of course it is more complex, but in their zealotry people forget that WHM vs AST personal DPS is actually really close on a raid boss target (accuracy checks) and their mana restorations are pretty much the same unless your RNG is super biased, like "10 times Spire 8 times Spear 4 times Bole on bad moments"-biased. Encounter context matters a whole lot more than people give it credit for.

[Velox]

Can't agree with this at all. With the addition of Assize, MP is so much easier to manage on WHMs now. The only real way to get OOM is if you're not using Shroud/Assize when it's available or if you're overhealing like crazy. I thought MP management was a huge factor in learning WHM back in 2.x, and that's now relatable to AST only. Ewer is a very weak MP regen, and usually not even worth using unless you're in a very dire situation.

You're also forgetting that, AST MP costs are lower for spells of the same potency as WHM. That means you spend less MP during a boss fight as a AST than a WHM, meaning their MP management is very much on-par with each other