AST's weakness in end game

[Alisane]

The only thing that needs to be adjusted on AST is noct sect. Have CO add maybe 2% potency to already applied shields and cards...
Cards are fine. You make the most of whatever you draw.

Agree with this! The real "problem" with AST is not the class. It is that it is more difficult to just jump in and start healing with, as it doesn't have as many tools as WHM or SCH. So you have to be a halfway decent healer to do well with AST.

[Kabzy]

Agree with this! The real "problem" with AST is not the class. It is that it is more difficult to just jump in and start healing with, as it doesn't have as many tools as WHM or SCH. So you have to be a halfway decent healer to do well with AST.

I don't think they have fewer tools to heal with, all 3 healers share the basic spells needed in this game to heal well.

I agree with your other point though. Having played all 3 healer jobs in Savage (even Noct. AST), I can say the reason that I think people cry about AST is that it is a little more difficult to play. Not because they don't have the tools, but because they have fewer emergency options, meaning you really have to be on point with your healing. Having fewer margins for error doesn't mean a job needs tweaking, it just means the player has to be exceptionally skilled at what they're doing. Pair this with them having stricter MP management, it just boils down to 'you have to be good to do well with a job like AST'. There's nothing wrong with one job being slightly more complex to play than another.

[TatoRazzino]

I don't think they have fewer tools to heal with, all 3 healers share the basic spells needed in this game to heal well.

I agree with your other point though. Having played all 3 healer jobs in Savage (even Noct. AST), I can say the reason that I think people cry about AST is that it is a little more difficult to play. Not because they don't have the tools, but because they have fewer emergency options, meaning you really have to be on point with your healing. Having fewer margins for error doesn't mean a job needs tweaking, it just means the player has to be exceptionally skilled at what they're doing. Pair this with them having stricter MP management, it just boils down to 'you have to be good to do well with a job like AST'. There's nothing wrong with one job being slightly more complex to play than another.

Thank you for saying that! This point has been made in several other threads, but people don't seem to give it any credit. DRK, MCH and AST are harder to play than the previous jobs (DRK has a two resource management system that must be mastered for optimal performance, and MCH has a very complex proc system that needs to me managed very efficiently to maximize DPS output), and the fact that you need to be level 50 to unlock them is not accidental. So, yeah, playing AST requires skill; it's a very proactive healer with a toolkit that seems reactive, so you need to burn a feel cooldowns do reach the same AoE healing output as a WHM. You have to use Nocturnal Shields, Collective Unconscious and Disable to mitigate as much damage as possible, because you won't be able to burst AoE heal like WHMs can with a Cure III. That's not a problem, because you'll be paired with either a WHM or a SCH, who can do that. Pairing AST/WHM is the safest healing option, but it lowers overall DPS; AST/SCH is riskier, but you get high DPS output and utility. WHM/SCH is a balanced choice, and in almost all games I've played balance is usually easier for progression or for beginners. I have absolutely no idea what generated this hate, since this is no different than what we see in other games. Playing AST is a way of gambling. It's supposed to be.

[AzureFlare]

I don't think they have fewer tools to heal with, all 3 healers share the basic spells needed in this game to heal well.

I agree with your other point though. Having played all 3 healer jobs in Savage (even Noct. AST), I can say the reason that I think people cry about AST is that it is a little more difficult to play. Not because they don't have the tools, but because they have fewer emergency options, meaning you really have to be on point with your healing. Having fewer margins for error doesn't mean a job needs tweaking, it just means the player has to be exceptionally skilled at what they're doing. Pair this with them having stricter MP management, it just boils down to 'you have to be good to do well with a job like AST'. There's nothing wrong with one job being slightly more complex to play than another.

Things I notice from AST:
Assize/Indomitability vs CU/Lightspeed/CO: none of them give instant healing off the global cooldown. Assize/Indomitability are ridiculously easy tools to use, instant and off global cooldown while the worth is about the same if not lower for their AST counterparts when used by average players. That alone doesn't help. Pretty much parallels what you said on 'emergency heals'.
Luminiferous Aether vs Shroud/Fairy: LA can't be used as an 'oh shit'/afterthought while Shroud can and a SCH should generally never care about hate anyway.
CO/TD: Combos combos combos and all over time too. SCH and WHM had much more straight-forward uses of their buttons when combined and I personally feel they don't need nearly as much thought about what buttons to use together like an AST does (given that TD and CO are worthless alone by default). Combine that with a mindset where you generally use a button according to the situation and I can tell why people feel a little freaked out when they have to press 2-3 cooldowns together at regular intervals.

And of course there's more: higher cooldowns, multi-purpose tools, needing to know other jobs and watching their buffs to really get the most out of your cards. There's a lot they can do to make the job more attractive and 'easier' to play, but straight up buffs to the job as a whole? Please no. Most people don't even know the true worth that some cooldowns bring regardless of skill levels, let's wait and see the 3.2 meta first and at most bring Nocturnal's choices on par with Diurnal's.

Oh, and I repeat: 14k mana, 2 non-buffed / 1 extended Ewer, non-CO extended, on a 12 minute fight(? not sure what length I measured it on) or so while using LA+CO on cooldown is pretty much on par with using Assize and Shroud on cooldown. If you don't get that Ewer, use the other cards instead and don't use damage spells. WHM and AST are dangerously close in mana if you give yourself the opportunity to.

[Alisane]

I don't think they have fewer tools to heal with, all 3 healers share the basic spells needed in this game to heal well.

I should have been more specific here. What I really meant was, because of the card abilities, you have less space for "extras". No Virus, no Eye for an Eye, no Stoneskin. WHM has an instant group heal, as does SCH, without having to use a cooldown. WHM gets two large instant heals, SCH gets however many as stacks they have, whereas AST gets one. Does this make or break healing? Definitely not. It is just one of the things that makes AST a little different than the others, which people newer to healing may struggle with. It also allows less room for big errors in the group because you can't blow three stacks of Lustrate on the tank, etc.

This doesn't mean that AST is bad, needs revision, etc. Classes are different and not everyone will excel with AST.

[TatoRazzino]

@Alisane
ASTs have Stoneskin, and the potency is the same. The casting time is longer, though.

[Nekotee]

Last i recall
If you compare AST and whm
They have the same single target potency and AST has a lower mana cost, is a lot faster thanks to diurnal, and have a double mana regen (LA and ewer) that can be both extended...

I'm sorry i fail to see how whm is better ?

Oh yeah cure III, assize and asylum in aoe healing...
Yup good... But lightspeed allow the same for more or less the same mana cost

The two best thing of the whm
""'Instant""" benediction that can save anyone and bypass CS (can you see the quote for the instant part... Friggin animation)
And the enmity reduction provider by the shroud...
Which made him the only healer able to remove his aggro (and this is huge !)
Ast can only nullify it and sch has nothing...
....

The SCH can be far more stronger than the AST with crit...
Basic AST shield are better, but SCH are double with crit

EoS allow the SCH to be stronger because of her bonus healing skills
Otherwise... What can beat the instant shield from AST ? Seriously?
(I stop counting how many lazy derp i saved with that, especially on Alex 4 NM)

[NamoNanamo]

Oh yeah cure III, assize and asylum in aoe healing...
Yup good... But lightspeed allow the same for more or less the same mana cost

nop. Whm still far better in aoe healing.

I got idea since all those claiming AST is fine go run double as in savage 1 in noct sect the other in diurnal sect ... Now since we are mimics of whm/ sch we should be able to do it no problem at all ... I want video prove of it linked on thos forum....until then ast needs a major rework with its identity and not shadow whm/sch and copy there regens/shield.. Or fairy/divine seal (cough synasty) .... Yes we can do content because we are being carried by the SCH or the WHM.... Ast on it self cannot do it.. Try it with double ast and u will see the problems we have ... So until then just suck it up at wait for changes towards ast

Are you ok ?

[Nekotee]

Oh wait wait my post was more aggresive than i tought

I was just opposed to the single target whm advantages
Whm is hands down the best aoe healing (range, raw power, everything)

I don't think whm has a better mp management than AST...
I mean AST has a double mana regen that can be both extended by 5 sec and if lucky with card drawing one EVERY 30 sec (but lowering support bonus)
Assize is an awesome tool i agree (i love that spell... So much spiritbonding...)

Free cure is good... Damn good but you have to cast it XD
I prefer the instant benefic II (but it cost a lot.... Urgh)

...

Divine seal does not affect tetra nor assize nor asilum... If i'm not mistaken...
And synastry give a less stronger bonus buff but a superior healing in the end (string 2 target healing or 160% single target)

...

As for the card...
Balance is the best for DPS...
Arrow could give à stronger boost but require a better ressource management from the DPS
=> arrow enhanced the risk of enochian failure on Blm XD because they will be greedy for more and forget to recharge Enoch with ice 4