Raidsetup Drg/Mnk or Nin/Mnk?

[Luminius]

Hey guys.

I havent found a thread bout this so far and i wanna know what setup is runnin better which i mentioned in the topic. Im not good in any maths so i keep it simple from what i know. So i just note down the pros of Drg and Nin and leave the discussion to the community whats better setup if we keep the mnk as a static class and want to figure out what fits best regarding utility, raiddps and sustained dps. (Sry for bad english)

Drg Pro:

- High sustained dps
- good aoe dps
- pushes Brd
- pushes Raiddps with Litany

Nin Pro:

- Enmity control (Tank can go dps stance, healer aggro reduced
- Trickattack
- Goad
- High initial dps

This was what came first to my mind bout both classes. So whats the better setup for Raids? Nin/Mnk or Drg/Mnk?

// Maths are welcome

[Cabalabob]

DRG is pretty much a must have at this point due to battle litany and buffing BRD and MCH damage with their piercing buff. The real question is MNK or NIN not DRG or NIN. And what you really need to look at to decide which is better is actually the tanks more than anything.

If you have a DRK then MNK really isn't adding anything to the raid other than enhanced mantra which is meh. Having a NIN will give the DRK a slashing buff (if you don't have a WAR), goad and enmity control if needed as well as trick attack to buff raid damage.

If you don't have a DRK then MNK can be good for INT down to reduce magic damage taken and if you have a WAR then they can apply the slashing debuff so NIN is less useful.

I'd say MNK fits into the old WAR and PLD combo best, while NIN fits better with a DRK and PLD or DRK and WAR.

But since I'm assuming you're the MNK which is why you're asking between DRG or NIN as a partner, I'd say it really doesn't matter, each one adds raid utility, NIN has trick attack and even if you have a WAR for slashing debuff that just means the NIN can remove dancing edge from their rotation to increase their own dps. While DRG adds battle litany and the piercing debuff for your BRD or MCH. The only thing that makes a difference is NIN's goad and enmity control. Those might be good while you're learning but they shouldn't be necessary as the tank should be able to hold hate and unless people are dying they shouldn't be running out of tp with paeon.

[Gamer3427]

Well, it depends more on what your party set up is. The reason people want DRGs or NINs in their statics is usually because of the damage buff they provide. DRG's benefits them as well as a MCH/BRD in the party, while NINs benefits the tanks, but is useless if there's a WAR in the party. Honestly, I'd go more with the DRG just because of Litany and that there's less room for DPS loss, (NIN always has to worry about one wrong murda press or lag taking a chunk of damage, even after the fixes), but in the end it's more of a call based on what the party set up is, and the skill of the individual players within the party.....

[MrCookTM]

What is it with all that "Nin is less useful if there's a war" stuff? The dps boost Nin gets from war is pretty significant.

Anyway, at this point it's just a question of personal preference and raid comp. Drg + Nin is still unchallenged in terms of raid dps, that being said you might still want to bring a Mnk if there's no Drk in the party. In this case, Drg + Mnk would probably be best, if only by a very slight margin.

[Cabalabob]

What is it with all that "Nin is less useful if there's a war" stuff? The dps boost Nin gets from war is pretty significant.

When you provide something that is already being provided it makes it less useful that you can provide it. It's just a fact. NIN has to go out of its way to provide the slashing debuff, WAR does not. If you have a WAR you no longer need someone to provide the slashing debuff like you would with a DRK and PLD combo, hence it is less useful. NIN isn't useless if there's a WAR but if one of the draws of bringing a NIN is taken away by having a WAR it makes it objectively less useful.

[mosaicex]

Easy, Got DRK? Bring NIN instead of MNK.

No WAR? Bring NIN and other DPS of choice.

[Luminius]

Yeah forgot to mention it. Yes im the Monk and im the raid lead so basically im not gonna exclude myself. Our Raidcomposition is Drk (with offspec pld), war, whm, sch, mnk, brd and smn so far. Maybe i have to mention this is an eu grp where all have ping of 25-35ms and mudra issues we didnt have really.

[MrCookTM]

Yeah forgot to mention it. Yes im the Monk and im the raid lead so basically im not gonna exclude myself. Our Raidcomposition is Drk (with offspec pld), war, whm, sch, mnk, brd and smn so far. Maybe i have to mention this is an eu grp where all have ping of 25-35ms and mudra issues we didnt have really.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter at this point, savage is perfectly doable with whatever melee comp, they're all fine and viable. Drg ofc has the benefit of buffing the ranged while having slightly higher sustained dps himself, by slightly I mean like 40 - 60 dps. Nin on the other hand buffs the whole raids dps by more than 120 dps and makes short burst dps checks like hand of pain a no brainer. Just pick the job you find a good player of and you'll be good.

If you wanna min-max: pick a drg and switch to nin, or pick a nin and switch to drg.

[Cabalabob]

Yeah forgot to mention it. Yes im the Monk and im the raid lead so basically im not gonna exclude myself. Our Raidcomposition is Drk (with offspec pld), war, whm, sch, mnk, brd and smn so far. Maybe i have to mention this is an eu grp where all have ping of 25-35ms and mudra issues we didnt have really.

Yep, sorry to say, but with that setup you are the dead weight in the group. But don't worry about it, I'm a PLD so I'm in the same boat lol. With void ark gear and being able to upgrade eso to 210 with the void ark weekly and hunts, you shouldn't have any problem meeting the dps checks with a less than optimal setup. So again, between DRG and NIN it's going to make very little difference, NIN would be better for learning while DRG will help with faster clears once you've learned the fights.

But if you want a definitive answer I'd say take a DRG, simply cause your BRD will like you more.

[Aeliott]

When you provide something that is already being provided it makes it less useful that you can provide it. It's just a fact. NIN has to go out of its way to provide the slashing debuff, WAR does not. If you have a WAR you no longer need someone to provide the slashing debuff like you would with a DRK and PLD combo, hence it is less useful. NIN isn't useless if there's a WAR but if one of the draws of bringing a NIN is taken away by having a WAR it makes it objectively less useful.

1. NIN not having to worry about Dancing Edge means more Aeolian Edges, which means they're doing more damage than they would without a WAR in the party. Every time they'd otherwise do 260 potency, they now do 320. And without WAR, NINs use DA a LOT. MNK/DRK is different because the debuff they give is defensive, and nobody else actually benefits from the Blunt resist down MNK gives. NIN gets more DPS out of the slashing thing too :P , you lose _nothing_ since WAR - as an OT at least - is going to keep the debuff up regardless of who's in the party - whereas DRK can apply its defensive debuff when necessary, and nobody cares about the loss of Blunt down without a MNK. NIN and WAR don't tread on each others toes like that at all, it only enhances ninja's usefulness since it can now do more damage, and the party still gets its slashing down debuff because WARs do it anyway. Again, nothing is lost from this comp, only gained.

It's objectively MORE useful, not less :P . You said it yourself: "NIN has to go out of its way to provide the slashing debuff, WAR does not". Unlike MNK/DRK though, the "utility" one of them loses from overlap gets replaced with something more useful - more damage.

2. Trick Attack is THE biggest draw of bringing a Ninja, not Dancing Edge, especially when WAR is easily considered the best tank. DA isn't considered at all.