A former WAR's Paradigm Shift

[Donjo]

Or simply that repeating the same point doesn't make it more valid, when it's just overreacting.

Well, actually it has shown that my bait has caught the primary target hook, line, and sinker. Thank you for your cooperation in proving my point, and have a nice day.

[MagiusNecros]

Post character limit is pretty dumb IMO. If I want to make long in depth posts about a discussion I am unable to. Is this a new user stipulation or is it a thing for everyone. 1000 characters is too short.

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Gonna agree with the guy that says bads will be bad. Run into them all the time. Running into a fresh Drk with 25 gear and only using Grit and nothing else was the most horrible experience I ever had. Did not know what Darkside was.

We were in Darkhold a 45 dungeon. He was in 25 gear at lvl 45. Can you believe that?

[Februs]

Post character limit is pretty dumb IMO. If I want to make long in depth posts about a discussion I am unable to. Is this a new user stipulation or is it a thing for everyone. 1000 characters is too short.

It's the same for everyone. The only thing limited from person to person is the actual number of posts and threads you can create which is restricted by the current level of your character (so you should always log out on a lvl 60 character to get the maximum). The only way around the character restriction is to edit your post after the fact.

[Reynhart]

And another idea...since Parry is the only tank stat, and it's garbage, replace it with Enmity.
This way, "bad tanks" will have their training wheels...and even good ones, if they face über-DPS

[AI_wass]

How, exactly, would you implement this while staying within the current skillsets of the tank jobs? What I'm hearing is that you want bad tanks to die and lose aggro, and good tanks to stay alive and keep aggro; but that's not exactly something that doesn't already happen. You want to make enmity management trickier - not something I agree with, considering all the tanks that I see never learned it in its current iteration - explain further. You want to emphasize survivability over damage - how? Be specific. This conversation is far too vague as it is.

[Reynhart]

How, exactly, would you implement this while staying within the current skillsets of the tank jobs?

It is not doable without revamping several things in the game.
First, you'd need to make DPS do far more significant damage. Their optimal rotation should be a HUGE deal on monsters.
Second, tanks CD should not be directly tied to damage but to enmity, to the point where you would be able to theorycraft the most enmity you could do with your rotation (Exactly like you can do now with DPS rotation and priorities). You could also have enmity decay, and buffs to temporarily stop that decay. Buffs that you'd need to keep on, exactly like you would with DoTs.

As for balancing content, it's not really a problem. In "easy" content, you wouldn't need many burst of aggro, so you'd be fine by only building strong enmity over time. In higher content, you'd have to take mobs on the fly, deal with aggro reset or transfer, etc...
Excuse me for making another comparison FFXI (I know this is not FFXI, because if it were I wouldn't play it anymore ), but as a DPS, it was an awesome feeling to you end with a tank that could keep up with me where I could unleash all my offensive skills at once. It felt more like we were a team, not that there was a tank doing his stuff, and me doing my stuff.

[Leonus]

This may sound stupid, but currently, with all the abilities classes have, wouldn't adding abilities for more active mitigation cause button bloat? That or you would have to replace existing effects on abilities (or abilities themselves) with more defensive ones, narrowing down any offensive options that you have...

Anyone care to elaborate? Sounds pretty lame to me, so I'm looking for a different point of view.

[AI_wass]

As things stand currently in progression content, tanks establish aggro quickly then maintain that enmity through brute-force DPS rotations, riding just above the line of aggro for as long as possible, while hitting cooldowns to survive incoming damage. Aggro management here consists of when and how often you have to return to stance or use your enmity combo; particularly in the case of DRKs and PLDs, because their enmity combo is also their lowest potency combo. WAR doesn't really worry about aggro because their highest potency combo /is/ their enmity combo.

WAR notwithstanding, I don't see what's so different about what you desire compared to what's currently implemented, other than the presence of cooldowns used purely to maintain enmity and maybe some fancy aggro tricks in raids; though I can make an argument that those cooldowns already exist in the form of the tanks' defensive stances.