Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[UBERHAXED]

Go to jail? Seriously? Let's remain civil and mature in this discussion. Trial and error is a major part of proving theories

Yes, spreading misinformation is a crime, similar to dividing by zero.

Yes there is

Circular logic? Parsers are verified by using mathematical basis in game. That's how we find bugs.

That is what proving a theory wrong is. It is finding a flaw in the theory. Theories are proven wrong via running several consistent experiments and monitoring the data. That is what a parser helps with.

Since you intentionally using words out of context... We don't make mathematical axioms, postulates, and corollaries about stuff in game. The word "theory" means mathematically. If you find a flaw with someone doing algebra or arithmetic, that means that person doesn't know algebra or arithmetic, not that all of algebra or arithmetic is wrong (which incidentally cannot be possible since we would need to use algebra to prove there something is wrong with algebra). But I mean I thought I didn't have to spell out in parenthesis the contextual meaning of words with multiple English meanings.

This barely makes any sense as a question, but essentially a perfect rotation may not transfer well in to every fight (due to mechanics, jumps, adds etc). In order to illustrate my answer, I added square brackets into your quote.

You cannot do higher damage than this rotation, there fore you have a damage ceiling, no matter how many time you "test" with your parser in any fight. That's what the statement means. It might help you comprehend if you don't quote out of ocntext.

Correct, that is how one comes up with their theory, by testing math. That said, due to the complexities of all the various skills, buffs that can be applied via your team and yourself, potions as well as debuffs and mechanics from given fights, it's great to test your said theory with a tool that will tell you if you're doing what you expect.

No it's not. You have no idea even what you are talking about. Aside from you using the wrong meaning of the word theory, damage is random. Potencies are not. This is the only thing you can compare. Unfortunately, a parser cannot give you a "potency/second" figure that is accurate (how did the parser know that you got the positional potency or combo potency). We don't build rotations around parsers. We verify there are no bugs in the parser by doing the rotation and comparing against the mathematically estimates given by the potency and damage formula. The amount of misinformation is astonishing.

Well, you go in to the dungeon and use BoTD at one point several times and see your numbers. Then you go in and try using it at another point and see how your numbers change. This will help you understand when is best to use it.

If we are doing this then counting the permutations of all possible moves across the duration of the fight (which varies due to dps variance) you will die of age before your trial an error will tell you what's the minimum with a boss with 10000 HP. Or... you can use common sense and use attacks before buffs fall off. Also... lol go into a dungeon... Are we even talking about the same thing here? I can assure you (by reading the skill) that BoTD had no hidden effects that affect your dps. That aside (a serious comment) BoTD should be up 100% of the time. That was intentionally facetious. And whatever minute change you see in the parser is problem due to the fact that damage is RANDOM, and not that you found some hidden effect of a skill.

For example, maybe I want to use Raging Strikes after I dot up, use paintflare/fester/fester/dreadwyrm, so I can have both raging, deathflare and x-drac pot up for another fester + ruin II + tridisaster and deathflare. However, in X fight, when I do that, I end up having 6 seconds of raging strikes ticking away while Y boss is jumping. Common sense would tell me that is a waste, but the parser can help me see exactly by how much of a waste. Perhaps it wasn't a waste at all if I deathflare before the jump, as all I lose is a few ticks on the dot. Perhaps, I need to hold all of those skills til after the jump and should just use Ruin I. Alright, so there are various situations, and I can probably do the math for every single encounter I run in to, but do we play this game to sit around with a calculator? Probably not, what is great is having a tool that shows us how are actions are changing with various attempts and ideas.

Not sure if serious. I gave this example intentionally. Parsers cannot determine this seeing as we can't read DoT damage... All you will have a incorrect information compared against other incorrect information based on a number with random variance. In every case without fail, just doing the potency calculation (which, not surprisingly already resolved for you in the optimal rotations) will tell you what will give the highest DPS. Also lol calculator. Do you get a calculator to verify that 9+12 is 21? Because I'm pretty sure it works the other way around. Joking aside, calculators logic are build using arithmetic. We don't build arithmetic around calculators.

This depends how you want to read in to what people are saying. No one has claimed that a parser actually increases DPS on it's own. Everyone is saying it's a tool that lets you see if you are performing poorly, and will give you feedback with how changes in your playstyle affect this.

A person knows without a parser how poorly they performed for a fight. You don't need a parser to realize "I messed up my rotation". So you did AS1 and ended with 1000 dps. Is that good or bad? What does the number even mean? You know before the fight ended how well you did.

False, they can help you determine how your rotation is working and provide you the information which helps with adjusting. I am not saying a parser will improve your rotation on its own, but it will help towards that goal. Further, you can use the tool to see how you compare to other people of your same job and gear level, and ask for pointers when necessary.

What does "is working" even mean? If you're doing the same moves as someone else and get different results that means either 1. Their gear (such as weapon damage) have larger multipliers. Or 2. Random factor, such as critical hits (uncontrollable) or regular damage variance (uncontrollable). If you aren't doing the same moves, then you should be fixing that before you start looking at damage numbers. If you're not using the optimal rotation (found by doing math, not parsing btw) then you cannot perform better than someone who does (not the same as having higher dps, seeing as damage is random). If you really wanted help to improve your rotation, then you would have already either did your searches and found it online or you would look at the potencies yourself. You're digging you're digging a hole for yourself. Are you saying that there cannot possible as of this current moment be any good (performs at the virtuoso level) players on PS3 or PS4? Because they exist and they got good my using some sense.

Having a parser that gave you DPS once wouldn't help you improve your performance either. Parsers give real time data on how well you are doing.

Knowing your SAT score will not help you the next time you take the SAT. You know during the test how well or poorly you did. You also seem to be misinterpreting what the use of a parser is. Parsers are useful for retrospective analysis. In real time you need to look and the screen and play the game. If you want real time reinforcement, then look at the flying text.

That is not true and is offensive to anyone who doesn't. I have played with plenty of people who perform very poorly, but have no idea that they did. These people were not stupid, they just didn't think about everything the same way you or I did.

Disclaimer message still hold true. Moving on...

I mostly agree with this statement, even though it is factually incorrect. AoE can increase your DPS well above a dummy parse. The question is, is that AoE actually helpful or not?

[/QUOTE]
We are talking about the same thing right? In RAIDS (i.e. the only place where dps even remotely matters) you should be measuring damage. All damage counts. Also you can stack dummies next to each other to simulate damage. The only situations were this does not translate cleanly is when we have bosses with different defense values than dummies. Which incidentally makes number comparison different. But you know what doesn't change? Potencies. Also you don't need a parser to realize that you can just painflare to do more damage than fester when you hit both the boss and alarums. You do need to able to count on your fingers though. (1x300 < 2x200).

[KaitlanKela]

-snip-

What I'm getting from this is that you don't think parsers are necessary? I'm not going to argue with you about that. I don't use one, as I am still working on HW content and I'm not even level 60 so I couldn't work on an 'optimal' rotation with theory or parser right now because I don't have all my skills and in two levels it would be obsolete.

However, if you don't think it's necessary and you prefer to use potency and theory, please do. Don't use it. Never look at it. There is nothing to say that by implementing a parser it is now absolutely required in order to play the game or raid. But the argument about depriving people who would use it of it because you don't think it's necessary is kinda lame. You're essentially telling people that everyone should play your way.

Please correct me if you're meaning something different.

[Kaurie]

Snip

I disagree with almost everything you said, and am fairly unappreciative of the offensive tone you take while debating. So, I am not going to bother picking apart your faulty argument.

One thing to note, the part where you mention that parsers cannot accurately account for DOTs and the other part which talks about if parsers are inaccurately adding up your damage is the entire reason why I personally want an official parser from Square Enix (one which will use their internal data to be more accurate).

On your last note, not all damage counts. For example, on Faust, my numbers are significantly higher than anyone elses (as a SMN) due to added AoE damage from shadowflare/deathflare etc, but the damage on the adds doesn't matter. It's the damage on Faust that matters. When looking at that, I often fall to 2nd of the 4 DPS.

[UBERHAXED]

I disagree with almost everything you said, and am fairly unappreciative of the offensive tone you take while debating. So, I am not going to bother picking apart your faulty argument.

One thing to note, the part where you mention that parsers cannot accurately account for DOTs and the other part which talks about if parsers are inaccurately adding up your damage is the entire reason why I personally want an official parser from Square Enix (one which will use their internal data to be more accurate).

On your last note, not all damage counts. For example, on Faust, my numbers are significantly higher than anyone elses (as a SMN) due to added AoE damage from shadowflare/deathflare etc, but the damage on the adds doesn't matter. It's the damage on Faust that matters. When looking at that, I often fall to 2nd of the 4 DPS.

What you mean to say is that you have no rebuttal because your argument is flawed. Also Faust is not a raid boss so no one cares how much damage you do there. Beating Faust doesn't get you any achievements, loot, title or anything. In the real environment, you have to look at the group. Also, read last line of the quote, I'm pro-parser. But people don't understand what the usage of it is and it doesn't help that some of them are also pro-parse (such as yourself). If you really wanted to improve your DPS, you would first get the basics down (i.e. optimal rotation) then look at gear. When you can do the mechanics of a raid correctly, then you try to make the fight as close to whacking a dummy (or "Faust") as possible. You already know what the maximum and what direction to go. If you need reinforcement, then look at the screen for the flying text.