Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[KaitlanKela]

Let's break the effects of implementing a parser into the game into some cases:

An @sshole sees your DPS after the first pull, reams you for not pulling your weight then vote kicks you. Harassment. Report. Move on. It would have been nice if they had acted human toward you, but it's the internet and there's no way that is going to happen 100% of the time no matter what. That's why harassment is reportable and it can be punished. Assume they are a dick all the time not just to you, don't take it personally, keep calm and carry on. For the record, people who are jerks are jerks already, parser or no. They just look at your gear instead. Therefore, this scenario is neutral: it neither improved or harmed the raiding meta. It's the same.

A decent fellow looks at his own numbers and realizes that they're less than the rest of the raid, or (ideally) he's comparing himself to other people his class for this fight. He doesn't say anything to anyone about it, but just looks up some ways to improve his rotation on the internet. Starts putting out better numbers. Everyone in the raid is happy, the quality of the meta improves by that much. Positive outcome

A helpful player notices that someone in their team is pulling low numbers. They casually offer to help said player, making suggestions about how they could improve. This other player accepts the advice with humility. Assuming it was good advice when they try it their numbers improve and they become a better player. Everyone in the raid benefits, the quality of the meta improves by that much. Positive outcome

A helpful player does the above, but the DPS in question gets butthurt and accuses player #1 of being mean and they demand that they can play their own way. Three options - Player 1 leaves, player 2 leaves, neither leave and they play the dungeon. Both option one and option two are less than ideal but they are already happening. Option three could end in clearing the dungeon or vote abandon. It has to be a seriously terrible dungeon run to make up for the 30 min lockout, and the vote abandon because you legitimately can't finish is disappointing and frustrating, but both situations are rare and are also already happening occasionally so how is it any different? Neutral outcome.

Therefore, all scenarios with a parser are either improved from what we have now, or neutral. Nothing is more toxic than it is already. The key here is that in order to get the benefits of the parser, we all need to try to be courteous and empathetic, as well as humble with thick-skins. If we have sensitive people or jerks the parser doesn't help us but, well, it really happens already, doesn't it? So it's not making it worse either.

[DPZ2]

You forgot a scenario:

You enter an instance, perform adequately and are then 'mysteriously' kicked because someone doesn't like your numbers. This becomes the standard procedure of all those 'git gud' folk out there. [After all, if you can't 'git gud' why should you be tolerated in the instance?] It's not reportable, because nothing has been said. It becomes so prevalent, however, that subscriptions start dropping rapidly because the folks who get constantly kicked go find another MMO to play.

Congratulations! Toxicity has been avoided!

[Kaurie]

You forgot a scenario:

You enter an instance, perform adequately and are then 'mysteriously' kicked because someone doesn't like your numbers. This becomes the standard procedure of all those 'git gud' folk out there. [After all, if you can't 'git gud' why should you be tolerated in the instance?] It's not reportable, because nothing has been said. It becomes so prevalent, however, that subscriptions start dropping rapidly because the folks who get constantly kicked go find another MMO to play.

Congratulations! Toxicity has been avoided!

I don't think people will kick people who are performing adequately. Either way, what you described is what is currently happening, as DPS parsers are used but just on the hush hush.

Furthermore, I would expect people are equally as likely to quit from frustration due to being paired with people who don't pull their weight as they are to quit due to being kicked from a dungeon once in a blue moon.

[zosia]

You forgot a scenario:

You enter an instance, perform adequately and are then 'mysteriously' kicked because someone doesn't like your numbers. This becomes the standard procedure of all those 'git gud' folk out there. [After all, if you can't 'git gud' why should you be tolerated in the instance?] It's not reportable, because nothing has been said. It becomes so prevalent, however, that subscriptions start dropping rapidly because the folks who get constantly kicked go find another MMO to play.

Congratulations! Toxicity has been avoided!

This scenario already has the potential to happen. This is not a new issues. It won't be a new issue with an official parser. Try again. Also, I think you're being hyperbolic. No one I know kicks people in this game for performing adequately.

You're just providing another example that anti parser arguments are either semantic BS, hyperbole, or make no sense. Thanks for your contribution.

[Kazumac]

You forgot a scenario:

You enter an instance, perform adequately and are then 'mysteriously' kicked because someone doesn't like your numbers. This becomes the standard procedure of all those 'git gud' folk out there. [After all, if you can't 'git gud' why should you be tolerated in the instance?] It's not reportable, because nothing has been said. It becomes so prevalent that subscriptions start dropping rapidly because the folks who get constantly kicked go find another MMO to play. Next thing you know you wake up in a hospital bed with the emergency sirens going off. Walk outside to find the world being devoured by a zombie horde that leads to a nuclear apocalypse. Your only choice to sustain life is to lose your humanity to avoid the marauding post apocalyptic biker gangs while you wander the desert. Finally arriving at the gates of Mordor where you witness Sauron's hordes of orcs wipe the last vestiges of humanity off the planet. It dawns on you "If only parsers weren't added to FFXIV this could all have been prevented."

Geez hyperbole much man? I know you ant-parser people are serious but...

[MeiUshu]

Let's break the effects of implementing a parser into the game into some cases:

An @sshole sees your DPS after the first pull, reams you for not pulling your weight then vote kicks you. Harassment. Report. .

this part is not something happening and that SE wants to deal with, this part is the problem and is happening more then not. People dont like you, they kick you, no matter if your numbers are good or bad and nothing that you can say will have SE do anything, as they have stated more then many times, they dont interfere in matter that concerns purely players and playstyle.Kicking oyu without saying anything is not something that will have any consequences on who has kicked you by SE the report is not oging to be followed up at all. Also, someone will always have lower numbers then someone else...there has to be a first and a last right ? and people immaturity in this game is so high, incredibly high, that the one with least numbers even if good numbers will be kicked and it WILL happen, it already is, for just being the last in the chain of the parser numbers, no matter if the numbers are good.

Saying it never happens or is not something done is wrong, it happens daily and makes this place a toxic place with toxic players. what you say is in the absolute ideal IF there was some consequences on abuse of the tool...today there isnt. so having a parser in-game will result in more frustrated people, more insults and stupidities and ultimately hurt the game.

[Ryel]

Saying it never happens or is not something done is wrong, it happens daily and makes this place a toxic place with toxic players. what you say is in the absolute ideal IF there was some consequences on abuse of the tool...today there isnt. so having a parser in-game will result in more frustrated people, more insults and stupidities and ultimately hurt the game.

Except this is not the case and has been proven to be not the case for the past decade.

Nobody is saying that there aren't players who will be harassed, just like there are already players who are being harassed now for non-parser related issues. Historically the issues of parser related abuse and harassment however are shown to be negligible in number compared to the rest of the playerbase and this can be seen over a decades worth of MMO titles that have allowed public parser usage.

There is a reason parsing and feeback tools keep being developed for MMOs, if the issues outweighed the benefits players would just stop developing them.

What people are saying however is that the rules against harassment and GM actions are sufficient enough to handle this, just like they are now.

SE doesn't have to worry about a separate division of parser harassment or some such because harassment is harassment regardless of the cause, a GM will review the situation like they do now, take action and move on.

If a player is finding themselves on the recieving end of harassment for their performance in the majority of the groups they end up with I promise you the parser or the other players are not the root of the problem.

What is more likely is that players who are not performing as well as they think they are will now have tangible and visible results shown through parser usage.

What some players will respond with will be something along the lines of: "But i've cleared X content! I know how to play my job!"

However the reality would be that the player didn't clear the content through their own merits but in actuality was in a party that cleared the content for them because they weren't performing at the level of the content at the time.

I am on PS4 and based off of my observations is that the worst players of all time(Bad players, fools, and <insertname>'s) are most frequently... other PSN-users.. sadly.

This still sounds like it was exclusive to the console playerbase, playing on the PC servers my experiences were entirely the opposite but like i've said before it's entirely possible that the console players who weren't used to MMO parse culture (as there aren't many MMOs that get a console release) had to go through a bit of an adjustment phase as they got use to the concept.

When it comes to FFXIV the console and PC users play on the same servers so those issues aren't likely to happen.

[Kaurie]

this part is not something happening and that SE wants to deal with, this part is the problem and is happening more then not.

There we have it, inexplicable proof that people are kicked from dungeons more often than they are completed.