Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[Azazua_azura]

@ kezy

DCUO started @ ps3 launch as a sub based MMO, what happen was the ps3 crowd had an outcry and rioted for it to be free to play not understanding what an MMO was or why it needed a sub, the devs failed to deliver the large update a mnth and with the ingame riots blocking exits to actually play people quit and the game became f2p with in 3 mnths. I'm unsure when the Parser was added, but i personally saw no good come from it. All i experi4enced and still experience is players not working together trying to top dps, and harassing you over mic.

Just fyi I still have my dcuo disk someplace in my closet, I recall buying it from game stop that game never launched as free.

I also wouldn't take ryles word for it as i still play the game on and off and it more or less a cess pool, i play it during mant. And being a female gamer i had to put up with THAT harrassment too -_-;;'


(tbh i actually don't think he played the game just trying to discredit those who made mention of it)


thing is though and this will happen, people will start complaining about dmg in content outsude raiding, some infact do already. I personally don;t care ifd a person parses or not, i just don't think its wise to subject the whole game to it. I don't feel i'm a second class players for not having a parser. But this stuff never stays personal.

And please stop talking down tpo me about dps checks.... I never had an issue beating a dps check. Seriously its not something all that hard to do, and mmo are not the only game genre with dps check type battles/content.

I read ur post 3 times just to make sure I understood it and something I wanted to express, All i have ever said is i dislike parser. I never once stated they shouldn't be added. I do thing it would be a bad idea. The reason why parser harassment isn't as wide spread as parser are supposedly (you can't factually say that but w/e ) is its a ban-able to say you use a parser. So people keep it to themselves unless in a safe enviroment. Add a parser, there will be a big switch. More people will have access and use to either troll, harrasse, etc other players. I was already harrassed to the point of moving to a jp server over being a fresh tank. Just read these forums, read fc chat, people already complain about dps not pulling their waight in content outside of raiding.

@ kaurie

what is the downside of not having a parser, mind eleborating?

[Yumiko]

@Azazua_azura

You're throwing information to discredit someone that you could be accused of yourself. Wheres your CD "in your closet somewhere"? I don't think you've shown anymore proof than he has, in fact you've shown less reason to believe his credentials when it comes to DCUO experience. While you very likely could have, you have only attacked his point through.. saying he never actually played it? I'd say this can feel rather insulting to any visitors of this forum that you would need to use ad hominem.

When it comes to the point I actually do not fall under one that cares whether or not there is an in game parser, I dislike the culture and experience but I would rather use strong points and listen to others rather than attack and bring down others' experiences. You may very well have experienced such things yourself but if you wish others to take you seriously in a discussion, you should be subject to the same criticisms. His experience can vary, he could be wrong, but when you focus on attacking someone else you are losing sight of an argument.

On topic,

@Gamer3427

My experience as a MCH is similar. While I can measure my DPS with the highs and lows of Wildfire and understand how well I'm doing at the high points of my DPS if we look at it in graph form I actually have issues trying to watch my wildfires on the screen. With how visually stimulating this game can be, it can actually become overwhelming to try to track my numbers during an actual fight so I also would love a solo parse to help me identify my actual numbers. Likewise sometimes with small latency issues I can see reassemble and a clean shot proc get lost and Sometimes I would like to know when I encountered such an issue. Overall, I would definitely enjoy the benefits with how hard it is to identify my Lead Shot's damage as well. The visuals could be better sure, but it could be more effective to know my normal Lead Shot damage and identify how much downtime I have. While I am a PC user, PS4 using Machinists already have it rough enough, I feel like the least they could use is better feedback and a solo parse method would be lovely for them I'm sure.

[Aquaslash]

what is the downside of not having a parser, mind eleborating?

From my own personal experience in The Neverending Quest To Git Gud, it was living in the blissful ignorance of thinking I was hot stuff, when the reality was that I was a massive shitter. Up until Alex savage, the game is faceroll easy for every. Flippin. Thing.

Literally any time I struggled in MSQ, echo kicked in and I sailed through everything. The leaders of my FC are so afraid of conflict that they bottle up any and all objections and just let me be a blissful idiot. (Probably didn't help that I had a hair trigger temper back in the day) The hints were here and there, and I even got kicked from a pug group, but the healers in that were blatantly screwing up mechanics and dying, so they were easy scapegoats.

It wasn't til I started I started networking with other dragoons and found an FC member who wasn't afraid to lay it all out there that I learned I was underperforming by a decent margin. (The problem ended up being poor OGCD usage)

The point of all this jive is that I could have been spared a whole lot of headache and a day of reworking muscle memory if I could see my own data from the get go and compare it to the acceptable standards. You can say "durr aggro meter, but there are aggro reducing skills, as well ad the very real (and often) scenario that you're the best of a bad group since the REAL badasses tend to never ever use DF ever.

Now you can scream harrasment all day, but did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, if you find yourself regularly on the recieving end of such treatment, then maybe you aren't as good as you think you are, and should probably man up and get better?

[RickXRolled]

Now you can scream harrasment all day, but did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, if you find yourself regularly on the recieving end of such treatment, then maybe you aren't as good as you think you are, and should probably man up and get better?

This is the reality behind the problem. Most of the pro-parser crowd doesn't really encounter this "harassment" because they usually perform well. Most of the anti-parser crowd seem to encounter and experience allot of "harassment". Doesn't take a genius to figure out why that is.

I'm autistic with tons of weaknesses that make even basic things needlessly complex, yet I perform great and never get harassed. My younger sister(15), who is also autistic, recently started playing mmo's herself. She would always talk about how fun it is and how good she is at the game. So I told her that if she ever were to try doing endgame content she might realize she isn't as good as she thinks she is and that she can/will be removed from groups if that is the case. Needless to say, she experienced exactly what I told her. Instead of whining and crying about it tho, she asked me to help her figure out how she can get better. Fast forward some weeks and now she really is kicking ass.

So instead of victimizing yourself, step up and improve.

[Ryel]

I'm unsure when the Parser was added, but i personally saw no good come from it. All i experi4enced and still experience is players not working together trying to top dps, and harassing you over mic.

It launched with the scorecard feature, it was there from day one.

I also wouldn't take ryles word for it as i still play the game on and off and it more or less a cess pool, i play it during mant. And being a female gamer i had to put up with THAT harrassment too -_-;;'


(tbh i actually don't think he played the game just trying to discredit those who made mention of it)

Funny thing about that actually...





Just because DCUO isn't my primary MMO, doesn't mean i don't play at all still, i usually log in and play for an extended period of time any time a new power set is added so that i can stay current.

I find it disappointing that you felt you needed to attack me personally as opposed to carefully reading the post where I said that my experience playing on the PC servers could very well have been different than that of the console players because parse culture is something PC MMO gamers are already used to. It's very likely that the console playerbase needed more time to adjust to the idea of openly seeing your performance evaluated, however FFXIV is fortunate enough that the console and PC players play on the same servers so it isn't likely to be an issue.

I will thank you however for further illustrating the misunderstandings that can occur around the subject and how it's more often than not those who make claims about issues of harassment that are the first to try and discredit someone else based on nothing at all. I never questioned whether or not you played the game or if your experiences were valid, i did however say that they may not have been as common as you make them out to be.

The reason why parser harassment isn't as wide spread as parser are supposedly (you can't factually say that but w/e ) is its a ban-able to say you use a parser. So people keep it to themselves unless in a safe enviroment. Add a parser, there will be a big switch. More people will have access and use to either troll, harrasse, etc other players. I was already harrassed to the point of moving to a jp server over being a fresh tank. Just read these forums, read fc chat, people already complain about dps not pulling their waight in content outside of raiding.

This isn't true as has been illustrated multiple times by multiple posters i implore you to take the time to read some of the arguments, watch some of the videos, and step outside of your own personal experiences, they seem to be blinding you to the larger picture.

[SnugglesD]

Words

First, you're a prime example of why the anti-parsing argument is immature and naive. If you nearly resorted to transferring servers because a few people harassed you over being a new tank, that's a serious problem. Not everyone is going to have only nice things to say. In fact, not everyone SHOULD have only nice things to say. You can't merely run away from every less-than-flowery thing someone says on the internet. The true solution, the one that would solve the whole situation, is that people need to grow up. So what if people are asshats? At the end of the day is it really going to harm you? Brush it off and move on like an adult. Everyone else has to do it. Its an unavoidable fact of life that people are horrible - each and every one of them. Just deal with it like we all have to.

Second, no one is getting banned for saying they use a parser. Not a single person. Ever. The devs all acknowledge that raiders use them and they've blatantly stated they aren't going to do anything about it as long as dps shaming doesn't get reported.

Third, the downside to not having a parser? Not everyone is like you and content to frolic through the fields of La Noscea. Some people want to be good at what they do. You know how people get better at things? Practice and quantifiable measurements. Without those measurements for comparison, no one ever knows they're truly improving. It goes for anything. Literally anything ever.

[BigRed5392]

First, you're a prime example of why the anti-parsing argument is immature and naive. If you nearly resorted to transferring servers because a few people harassed you over being a new tank, that's a serious problem. Not everyone is going to have only nice things to say. In fact, not everyone SHOULD have only nice things to say. You can't merely run away from every less-than-flowery thing someone says on the internet. The true solution, the one that would solve the whole situation, is that people need to grow up. So what if people are asshats? At the end of the day is it really going to harm you? Brush it off and move on like an adult. Everyone else has to do it. Its an unavoidable fact of life that people are horrible - each and every one of them. Just deal with it like we all have to.

Second, no one is getting banned for saying they use a parser. Not a single person. Ever. The devs all acknowledge that raiders use them and they've blatantly stated they aren't going to do anything about it as long as dps shaming doesn't get reported.

Third, the downside to not having a parser? Not everyone is like you and content to frolic through the fields of La Noscea. Some people want to be good at what they do. You know how people get better at things? Practice and quantifiable measurements. Without those measurements for comparison, no one ever knows they're truly improving. It goes for anything. Literally anything ever.

I play on PS4 and main smn. I have never been parsed willingly and don't care to be parsed. I dont need to know numbers to know how good i am doing. Just attack a mob solo (like the b rank hunt or striking dummy) and watch how fast it dies. if it takes a long time, I know i need to improve my dps. I dont need to see the parser data to know if my dps is good or not.

Devs acknowledge that raiders are using parsers, but that doesnt mean it is not reportable.

and harassment like what azazura got (I was there for most of it) was uncalled for. since we transfered to tonberry, there has been very little if any harassment. Before we transfered, we ran an AK run (her first run and she was pld) and she didnt know what mobs could be ignored and what mobs couldnt. she just pulled (small pulls) and we started out killing everything in the dungeon. the WHM ended up going ahead and pulling the next set of unskippable mobs while me and the pther dps were helping azazura kill the ones she pulled. I wasnt complaining...free gil (lol). the WHM almost died cause they pulled the next set of mobs and blamed her for that cause she pulled skippable mobs and didnt know they could be skipped, and insulted her because of it. we eventually kicked the whm just to have them rejoin again in-progress (glad they made it impossible to do that). and the WHM was complaining cause she was pulling small and relatively slow cause she didnt know what could be skipped. the WHM not only insulted her as a player, but also personal insults which is never called for in an online game. and that wasnt the first time stuff like that happened to her. it also happened while she was lving.

[Ghishlain]

Go to ff11 forums, look up "gear-swap" That is the type of community you pro parser are asking for and IS whats going to happen.

All this bickering is just a rehash from ff11 and the "gear swap" mentality. I do not want DF leveling to be turned into exclusionary "top dps or gtfo" You guys keep claiming it doesn't happen, but it did in FF11 I couldn't level or do non end game content on a fresh character w/o some jack arse insulting me calling me human filth for not gear swaping.

it was a trend started in 2010-2011 where players (mainly pc due to plug ins) would create multiple gear sets for each individual attack to get the most out of it. At first it was just an endgame thing, then it trickled down to even leveling. If u was a ps2/360 player and had nmo macro room or will to get ALL the gear required, you was called a bad player, lazy, human filth. Told to quict because you wasdted everyones time.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Gearswap / Windower provided players with the means to do the 12-14 equipment swaps required to maximize their potential in combat at the touch of a button. This was a huge differences compared to how a PS2/360/non-modded-PC player would need to hit 2-3 macros for a gear change then hit them with a weaponskill / spell for maximum effect. This became so mainstream that S-E had to eventually introduce their own "set save" mechanic that can be called upon by a macro to do the same thing and even built their fights around challenging these tiers of players. In short, gearswap / windower was a performance enhancing tool that became mainstream due to optimization.

A parser is just a tool to help players calculate their raw numbers and see what they can do to improve themselves. A parser does not affect the performance of the player directly whereas Gearswap / Windower does in FFXI. You won't see that kind of degradation of player here because parser is a performance measuring tool, not a performance enhancing tool.

Jerks will continue to be jerks regardless if they have access to a parser or not.

I play on PS4 and main smn. I have never been parsed willingly and don't care to be parsed. I dont need to know numbers to know how good i am doing. Just attack a mob solo (like the b rank hunt or striking dummy) and watch how fast it dies. if it takes a long time, I know i need to improve my dps. I dont need to see the parser data to know if my dps is good or not.

Devs acknowledge that raiders are using parsers, but that doesnt mean it is not reportable.

and harassment like what azazura got (I was there for most of it) was uncalled for. since we transfered to tonberry, there has been very little if any harassment. Before we transfered, we ran an AK run (her first run and she was pld) and she didnt know what mobs could be ignored and what mobs couldnt. she just pulled (small pulls) and we started out killing everything in the dungeon. the WHM ended up going ahead and pulling the next set of unskippable mobs while me and the pther dps were helping azazura kill the ones she pulled. I wasnt complaining...free gil (lol). the WHM almost died cause they pulled the next set of mobs and blamed her for that cause she pulled skippable mobs and didnt know they could be skipped, and insulted her because of it. we eventually kicked the whm just to have them rejoin again in-progress (glad they made it impossible to do that). and the WHM was complaining cause she was pulling small and relatively slow cause she didnt know what could be skipped. the WHM not only insulted her as a player, but also personal insults which is never called for in an online game. and that wasnt the first time stuff like that happened to her. it also happened while she was lving.

That's unfortunate that that had happened and I'm sorry that it did. Unfortunately, there will be people in this community who are like that and there's not much you can do about that but grit your teeth and hope karma kicks them in the tail.

While I've personally had my fair share of stupid people to deal with (and funny enough, the worst person I've had to deal with also came from AK), I've only had one incident where parsing was used to harassment in the 2+ years I've played (and from my understanding that person got GM'd to death).

The tool won't suddenly make player's have a terrible attitude. It's the player's with terrible attitude that will always have a terrible attitude.

[Elazu]

Stuff

What does this have to do with OP wanting a personal parser for self-improvement and people like Azazua being against that?

[Azazua_azura]

What does this have to do with OP wanting a personal parser for self-improvement and people like Azazua being against that?

I never said I was against it.

I was saying what would happen if it was added What people are not understanjding is the Link between gear swaping and parser debates. People use the same arguments on BOTH debates, and stem from the same exact crowd. Which is "play my way if you don't you suck because I said so and here is math to prove it"

gear swaping happen because of parsers. It was how players could get top dps, using plug ins to increase macro size to pull it off. This mindset (both gear swap amd parser numbers) went from raid content in ff11 to leveling content. You was expected to do it 24/7 in any and every content. This isn't a case of jerks being jerks, but hive mine conformity if you go against the hive mind your ousted.

And further exmple of parser in leveling content was hive mind conformity over rdm being able to melee in again leveling content, basiclly if you was a rdm who used a sword and hit a mob you was kicked. If you was a smn who used your avatar you was kicked, this was due to parser data reading that rdm melee was low and avatar dmg was low for the mp cost. Which slowed the exp/hr rate.

Thos also lead to again the flavor of the mnth level bursts of jobs based on how SE tweeked them.

At the moment parser use is againsy the ToS, yoshida only understood this will be used (he is a pc mmo gamer and knows this stuff from a pc gamer pov) But as a SE employee he can't state they are ok due to the SE ToS. Stating use them but don't talk about using them. This means players only talk about them in their raid static. If parser are made public that would change, and to deny it, is not seeing the bigger picture.

I could care less if a parser gets added though, what I don't want to see is DF exclusion. I already had my fill of that playing as a new tank on NA severs.

The only reason you didn't see it in WoW or DCUo as much is leveling is 100% solo. Early FF11 and current FF14 leveling isn't 100% solo.

And I never once argued for or against parser I just stated i dislike parser, feel they are not needed, and my experiences that lead me to think that way. What I got in return is harrasment, and fallacy about gaming from pro parser people who think I'm an idiot for disliking something.

So ya my boyfriend stuck up for me, because i was upset I was mistreated for giving my two cents.

I honestly feel bad for players when they feel they need to parse to know if they are good or not, and simply can't use chess like ;thinking to improve.

Also and correct me if I'm wrong,
Parser run by collecting data by calculating each skills damage over a period of time and if programed well, factors in Dot. on top of this and presented as a ratio of over all damage per second.

If I'm not incorrect how does one come up with a rotation based on that?

simply put what i mean is 5+6+7 = 6+7+ 5 = 5+7+6= 7+6+5 over the same 10 seconds.

Only variable being buffs use which changes the numbers based on the timing use, procs that increase the damage or apply a buff.

And debuffs that again change the numbers.

And why does one need a parser when there is a chat log battle text which reads your own person damage per skill (which is what parser read/factor)

With option of seeing other players batle log text (which again used by parser to factor dps)

This is what people have failed to explain since WoW when I asked, and I'm not being rude, just trying to learn more about this.

For me personally, don't factor ration well, at most when I play any rpg i factor (with out a tool) my dmg vs rate the mob dies. And try to increase4 my damage to make a monster die faster.

Either by testing combination of skills, gear, stat allocation via trial and error. All with out numbers outside of Percentages. I can mathmaticaly do percentages easier then ratio. Personally speaking I've always used geomatry and mentally picturing the hp bar in a grid format and calculating much and how fast i can take ouch each but of the grid. Again w.o a tool to do the math for me.

This is how I play ff14, when factoring my skill use/ buff use/ bonus state setting. Via trial and error.