Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[zosia]

This is the only reply you will get from me in this topic. I understand perfectly that the Internet is full of jerks. Interesting that you just default to insulting someone in your reply. What was that about the Internet and jerks again?

That's the 2nd reply I have received from you, please be consistent.

I am sorry if being frank with you is offensive. I did not belittle you. I did not call you a name. I did not call you a bad player. I simply stated a fact that you are defending a second class system that has inflicted console players.

Try again hun, accusing me of being condescending would have worked much better.

-snip-

You can cite any decent evidence and it will make no difference. You're arguing with people who use logic such as "cars can hurt people so ban cars." Most of us know that from a practical point of view, people who would be jerks with parsers are still jerks without parsers. The rest of the people who use parsers probably don't care about what random joe schmoe is doing in x, y, or z content.

The problem of 'just leave it to the GMs' is how many GMs do you think we have? The GMs have to deal with alot more than just calls on harassment, which are probably alot of calls ranging from chat harassment to abuses of the /vote systems. There's the thousands of RMT reports, bot reports, bug assistance. They are busy people and often deal with issues as they get them, meaning your harassment report could take hours to resolve. By that time you've done moved on and likely only remember the other person's name because you wrote it down. Assuming you did write it down. Making your defense of potential harassment from parsers, "Leave it to the GMs." is incredibly shallow. We, as a community, need to make such potential harassment a sticking point of any parser use and actively try to keep the abuse to a minimum.

We already have a community who is very strict and fast to report any mention of parsers in-game. Why would this zealous outlook disappear overnight if parsers were condoned? We would still have a community ready to report anybody for anything. You really think that there would be a flood of parser abuse if SE explicitly stated such behavior was a banable offense? I really don't think we have anything to worry about when you see how the "don't ask don't tell" policy of parsers has worked out so far.

[Kosmos992k]

Except that it isn't as it's been brought up and disproven in literally every single thread that this debate has taken place in.

No, it really hasn't been 'disproven' at all. You might like for it to be 'disproven' as it's convenient for your position to create that impression. You might feel that in your opinion the fear of harassment has somehow been 'disproven' in any or all of those topics, but that's your subjective point of view on the matter, not fact.

The point about fear of harassment is that it's a subjective emotion that some players feel. There is nothing to disprove about that, it's a simple fact that people can feel an emotion such as fear of harassment. It doesn't matter if it's rational in your opinion, or not. It doesn't matter if the incidence of actual harassment is low, the fact is that it does happen. If players fear that, you can downplay it all you like, but you can't 'disprove' it.

Downplaying that fear is nothing more than a tactic in support of your position on the use of parsers.

[Kazumac]

The potential for harassment enabled by having text chat in game is too large, please remove it.

[Colorful]

The potential for harassment enabled by having text chat in game is too large, please remove it.

Heh, they did that on the console version of ESO. Voice chat only I believe, which I've found to be a tad more toxix in quite a few games.

[Arrak]

I don't understand this safe space mentality. If someone belittles your dps, why not just improve? I think it's pathetic when people do ridicule players, rather than help out in PUGs, but shit talk happens all the time in the end game community. It just motivates us to perform better and beat their dps or clear times on fflogs. You don't need a parser to be an ass. More people are asses to newer players who fail mechanics than experienced players who can do mechanics but are just lower on dps. Maybe we should just ban the UI so no one can see when other people die.

[Zojha]

The potential for harassment enabled by having text chat in game is too large, please remove it.

Funnily enough, you can opt out of chat. Either configure your filter to not display anything, shrink/hide the window or blacklist everyone you see. If you're on PC, you can probably remove it entirely via an addOn (Inb4 PS4 users complain about being disadvantaged!)

[Ryel]

No, it really hasn't been 'disproven' at all. You might like for it to be 'disproven' as it's convenient for your position to create that impression. You might feel that in your opinion the fear of harassment has somehow been 'disproven' in any or all of those topics, but that's your subjective point of view on the matter, not fact.

The point about fear of harassment is that it's a subjective emotion that some players feel. There is nothing to disprove about that, it's a simple fact that people can feel an emotion such as fear of harassment. It doesn't matter if it's rational in your opinion, or not. It doesn't matter if the incidence of actual harassment is low, the fact is that it does happen. If players fear that, you can downplay it all you like, but you can't 'disprove' it.

Downplaying that fear is nothing more than a tactic in support of your position on the use of parsers.

No offense but that reasoning is starting to border on what could be called a "Safe space argument" and I don't say that to belittle or insult you.

In my post I specifically said that this is what we know based on large sample sizes or rather the majority of players, in both this and other MMOs.

Will a few players get caught in the crossfire once or twice or have a bad day / experience once and a while? Sure, hence why i said that's what the GM staff is for to take care of those outliers.

So let me rephrase this.

We know for a fact that a larger number of players players will benefit from the addition of a public parsing tool than the number of players who will encounter issues of harassment due to one, we also know that an even larger number of players won't care either way.

You will never be able however to dissuade the fear of every single individual player just like you can't collectively tell every single person to stop being afraid of spiders or boogeymen or w/e on a person to person basis.

let me also state that as a PC player I'm already playing on the platform that has access to a public parsing tool should i wish to acquire one So i have no personal stake or agenda in this, it doesn't make anything "convenient" for me in the slightest as I'm advocating for an equal playing field for a console I don't even own.

If you recall this thread is specifically asking for a parsing/feedback tool or ability for the playerbase that doesn't play on PC, namely the Ps3/Ps4 users.

Is there a legitimate reason that an entire paying portion of the playerbase should have to act like a lower class by asking a PC player to parse their performance for any tangible feedback in order to spare the feelings of a small number of players that out of the rest of the playerbase feel threatened by public parser use?

Personally i can't think of one, and i think it's rather insulting to the console players to say "Sorry you guys cant have it because it would hurt some feelings" or "You guys don't really NEED it to play the game" or "Just get better and learn how to play without one!!!!!'

It just doesn't sit well with me.

You can cite any decent evidence and it will make no difference. Your arguing with people who use logic such as "cars can hurt people so ban cars." Most of us know that from a practical point of view, people who would be jerks with parsers are still jerks without parsers. The rest of the people who use parsers probably don't care about what random joe schmoe is doing in x, y, or z content.

Doesn't mean i shouldn't try.

[Crysten]

Because for every person who calmly, politely and helpfully informs someone of their low DPS and seeks to actively assist them in improving...

There are 1000 idiots who scream, throw tantrums, vote kick, vote abandon, verbally abuse, refuse access to groups or generally misuse the information presented.

Given how people behave now with perceived low DPS, ill leave it to your imagination what those people would do with hard numbers that they could cram down their victims throat.

Because for every person who wishes to genuinely take on advice and improve themselves much like the OP...

There are 1000 idiots who scream, throw tantrums, vote kick, vote abandon, verbally abuse if even so much as a single syllable of critique is thrown their way.

Given how people behave now with perceived low DPS, ill leave it to your imagination what those people would do with hard numbers that people can use as evidence against them.

I really wish people would stop thinking this is a one way argument. Users with parsers are not the only ones capable of being assholes.

[Kazumac]

Heh, they did that on the console version of ESO I believe. Voice chat only I believe, which I've found to be a tad more toxix in quite a few games.

For sure it would be just as bad. And my joking post aside, you can turn off chat (by way of filters). We are given the tools to craft the online experience we want, it just takes initiative to go out there and make it what you will. The reason we can't have nice things isn't the harassers, it's the players like Kosmos who seem content to let others dictate their community rather than take charge of their own in game experiences.

It's a mindset thing though, so if what I say doesn't make sense, it means that person don't have the right mindset and will always be under attack by people ruining their game.

[Kazumac]

Funnily enough, you can opt out of chat. Either configure your filter to not display anything, shrink/hide the window or blacklist everyone you see. If you're on PC, you can probably remove it entirely via an addOn (Inb4 PS4 users complain about being disadvantaged!)

Yup I have an FC member who does this so they can focus etc. Not for harassment reasons just to remove distractions.