Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[Azazua_azura]

@ ry and od

I wasn't done typing lol.

I see you don't get it but w/e. My example is, bizmark ex in learning parties. I set up learning parties and every time the group would try to clear the carapice in 1 shot, if the group didn't they would force wipe then try again and break up the party if it didn't happen. To me thats not learning thats trying to top dps it.

A person can mis-step a mechanic (low or top dps) which causes a sudden shift in the fight, like the person dies then a healer has to raise which, slows the kill rate of the over all group as 2 people are not damaging it, which causes a phase to last a bit longer which can cause a wipe. I seen it happen often in all content even in ff11 endgame. But due to parser, trhe person who mistepped wasn't to blame but the low end dps due to not being able to cover the missing damage of 2 other players.

[Avidria]

@ ry and od

I wasn't done typing lol.

I see you don't get it but w/e. My example is, bizmark ex in learning parties. I set up learning parties and every time the group would try to clear the carapice in 1 shot, if the group didn't they would force wipe then try again and break up the party if it didn't happen. To me thats not learning thats trying to top dps it.

A person can mis-step a mechanic (low or top dps) which causes a sudden shift in the fight, like the person dies then a healer has to raise which, slows the kill rate of the over all group as 2 people are not damaging it, which causes a phase to last a bit longer which can cause a wipe. I seen it happen often in all content even in ff11 endgame. But due to parser, trhe person who mistepped wasn't to blame but the low end dps due to not being able to cover the missing damage of 2 other players.

It's not really an either-or situation though. In fights like bis ex, with both mechanics and dps checks, you need to deal with both.

High dps can make up for missteps, just like too many missteps can make high dps irrelevant or a lack of missteps can make low dps less of a problem.

Mistakes happen, it's understandable. But in some cases, low dps can kill a group just as well as mistakes.

[Crysten]

I see you don't get it but w/e. My example is, bizmark ex in learning parties. I set up learning parties and every time the group would try to clear the carapice in 1 shot, if the group didn't they would force wipe then try again and break up the party if it didn't happen. To me thats not learning thats trying to top dps it.

A person can mis-step a mechanic (low or top dps) which causes a sudden shift in the fight, like the person dies then a healer has to raise which, slows the kill rate of the over all group as 2 people are not damaging it, which causes a phase to last a bit longer which can cause a wipe. I seen it happen often in all content even in ff11 endgame. But due to parser, trhe person who mistepped wasn't to blame but the low end dps due to not being able to cover the missing damage of 2 other players.

Actually, any reasonable person would blame both of them. One for not pulling their weight and the other not handling mechanics correctly.

[Tigerlilley]

0.0

For the people arguing that low dps players will be blamed for wipes etc, please check my original post. I have specifically stated needing a PERSONAL parser to assist improving my own rotation, not a raid wide parser to critique anyone else's.

[Arrak]

There's already a parser scoreboard. PS4 players are on it. And it fosters competition more than it causes toxicity. Besides, the API is being made, so whether you like it or not, this game will have damage meters available for everyone eventually.

[Toguro]

There's already a parser scoreboard. PS4 players are on it. And it fosters competition more than it causes toxicity. Besides, the API is being made, so whether you like it or not, this game will have damage meters available for everyone eventually.

Yeah and I have a friend who did Savage once and their score was posted on the web(without their permission or knowledge) and because their DPS was a little lower that one day, they could not get into good groups because their DPS was out there and people judged them immediately.

[Arrak]

Yeah and I have a friend who did Savage once and their score was posted on the web(without their permission or knowledge) and because their DPS was a little lower that one day, they could not get into good groups because their DPS was out there and people judged them immediately.

And what differs that from server reputation, FC tag, lodestone profile, someone in that group just thinking your friend did poorly in a previous run? I know players that won't take people into a PF group based on FC tag. Those players suck, but it happens. You don't need parsers or a scoreboard to make players assholes. People have plenty of ways to measure a player.

[Artemiz]

The problem with parsers is that like any other collection of data they require a certain level of intellect, impartiality and honesty to interpret. Put that next to gamers who are frustrated and you get arguments and finger pointing. In the right hands they are a very useful tool but morons can use them too, to them they're just a tool to justify being an arsehole.

I do agree they should be in the game though it's a disappointed agreement, the cat is out of the bag and SE can't put it back in. The only thing worse than an arsehole is an arsehole who can cherry pick data others can't see. At least if everyone had access to the data people could see the same data so cherry pickking would be much more difficult. It would however be best if they'd never been invented but it's too late for that now.

As for the South Park stuff, well that's more of a satire of SJW's like the feminist movement or Black Lives Matter, it's about more than people being dicks in video games, ultimately safe spaces are about segregation and suppresion of free speech, something the world has tried hard to consign to the annals of history and for good reason. These idiots want to bring it back because they're stupid, that's what South Park is mocking.

[Arrak]

Kosmos, the safe space argument is about people wanting freedom from critique game-wide. This is a multiplayer game. You play with other people. Parsers are merely a measuring tool. They do not create toxicity. Shit attitudes and basement dwelling does. Players will be toxic about any type of gameplay, not just a dps measure. But in the end, this is an MMORPG. You are NOT free from critique, and you should not be. If you want to be free from critique and toxicity, don't play a multiplayer game. This post was originally about a PS4 player simply wanting the same tools as PC players, tools that are available in every other MMORPG. The anti-parser crowd brought up the toxicity argument. And again, that's just part of MMORPGs and it will be present in every single one. That's what GMs are for.

[Kosmos992k]

Kosmos, the safe space argument is about people wanting freedom from critique game-wide. This is a multiplayer game. You play with other people.
**snip**
That's what GMs are for.

Arrak, I don't care about the SafeSpace argument, I did not bring it up, nor do I advocate such things. In my view SafeSpaces become nothing more than ego driven echo chambers where our own opinions are constantly reinforced by their own echo.

I have *NOT* suggested that people should be free of criticism. Constructive criticism is an important part of learning what we need to improve, and subsequently improving. That's part of any multi-player game, and we can only improve if we a) want to and b) seek information and advice about our performance. A parser is but one possible source of information. And to be honest, I'm not going to argue for or against parser in this topic or any other (though previously I have).

As I have previously discussed in other threads though, critiquing others can actually be very problematic. This is because when people are receiving criticism, their first reaction is generally to become defensive. If they perceive that they are being attacked in some way, many, perhaps the majority of people react by either going on the attack themselves or they clam up and leave. There is a near infinite library of information about conflict resolution, communication styles, and emotional IQ that can illuminate this for you if you do the research. If a player being critiqued reacts poorly and goes on the attack, we both know it can escalate way out of proportion.

However, I have deliberately not said that there should be no parser, because as I have said over and over before, I can see a role for players using a parser for their own personal benefit in end-game content. In this topic I talked of player harassment in a general way, because player harassment related to parsers is not always a jerk armed with a parser abusing a lowbie DPS.

If players feel emboldened by an official parser, to offer more frequent and direct critiques, I believe that the long term impact will be to make the game feel more competitive and a lot less pleasant for people who have no desire to play this as a competitive sport, don't raid, and are content being able to clear Solo content and light party dungeons with ease. The consequence of that is people leaving the game. No online game needs to do something that actively drives players fro they game. My concern is that there is the potential for parser use to do just that - if it is not handled very well by SE, and responsibly by the players.

Since you mentioned GMs again, let me refer you to my previous comment about GMs not being terribly helpful unless the offense is completely egregious. It seems, sometimes, as if the GMs have been told to take a hands off approach and any matter that falls into the category of player disputes will be left to players to resolve themselves. Just look at the previous instances of theft from FC chests, and the total lack of action taken - because it's a matter of he said/she said. Without clear cut abuse that breaks the terms of service, a GM will do very little, at most warning someone verbally.

I'm not arguing for or against parsers. I only replied in this topic because someone else was essentially telling someone who feared possible harassment to "get over" it, which I felt was dismissing the possibility for abuse. Subsequently another poster stated that the fear of harassment had been "brought up and disproven in literally every single" instance where this was discussed. I simply pointed out that you cannot disprove an emotion or feeling that another person has about something. If people fear harassment, it's a legitimate issue, and who are we to dismiss it? I pointed this out and well, you know the rest.

People can attempt to redefine the discussion again and again, but there is rarely an attempt to discuss or answer the fears that some have over harassment, that goes beyond telling them to 'get over it', 'grow a thicker skin', ''go play something else' or 'git gud'. Tossing in clips from South Park lampooning SafeSpaces and pointless SJWs doesn't in any way answer the concerns either. If anything it seems to dismiss and belittle the concern and those expressing it. Hardly a constructive of compelling argument that fear of harassment is groundless, is it?

It really makes me laugh to myself when these discussions happen, and rather than actually talk about the issues raised, we instead see the same old re-hashed assertions that do *nothing* more than drown out the concern. Ironic that people touting parsers as constructive tools have such an inability to recognize real issues and discuss them constructively.