The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why.

[Freyyy]

I typiclally start a Boss fight with a Dark Arts Power slash... and then never have to use it again. Ever. Aggro for life at that point.

DA Power Slash is incredibly weak for the MP it costs. It only adds 1 to the enmity multiplier. DA C&S generates more threat than that. It's not worth a DA at all. If it doubled the multiplier or gave an additionnal nice effect (maybe TP restore or shit like that), it would be worth it, but currently it's a gigantic waste of MP considering that the combo already doesn't restore MP and by so is already an MP loss without even DAing it.

[Februs]

You probably had a Monk in your party with Dragon Kick up.

That's what I'm assuming at this point, but I honestly don't remember the party composition. I only remember that it happened because I was confused why it would work in once, but not later. I'll keep an eye out though, so that if it happens again I'll know if someone was competing with Delirium.

[Februs]

DA Power Slash is incredibly weak for the MP it costs. It only adds 1 to the enmity multiplier.

I figured that it was a low addition, but I didn't think it would be that low. Why did SE even bother to give Power Slash a DA effect in the first place if it was going to be so pitiful?

In any case, I always knew it was a small increase, but given that it's an introductory combo used with a full MP bar, and I literally never use the combo again for the entire fight in most cases, I don't think the Mp cost is substantial in any way. This is especially because the immediate follow up combo's (Delirium and Soul Eater) both employ Mp regen along with Carve and Spit, which I typically use to fuel additional uses of DA-Soul Eater. By the time you hit your first DA-SE, you've pretty well replenished your Mp bar anyway, so no worries.

One thing this tells me for certain though is that it is never advised and is a 100% waste of Mp to ever rotate a DA-PS combo after the initial pull, including if any adds show up. I've never done this myself, but I might have made this mistake if I didn't learn how utterly pathetic DA is for PS. Thanks for the info.

[MagiusNecros]

Pretty sure DA PS is for low level content where CnS isn't available. Still. I've never had much use for it. If I use it for anything it's for a single target boss fight at lower levels. Or to compete with other tanks in FATEs. While we are on the subject of wasting MP, it always bothered me that Paladin's stances to sift into them they both cost the same MP while Drk has a low MP cost to put Darkside back on but has a steep MP cost to put Grit back up if you ever drop it. Why is this? Is it because Blood Weapon and Price means we can afford that 1.3k price to go back into tank stance?

[Reynhart]

While we are on the subject of wasting MP, it always bothered me that Paladin's stances to sift into them they both cost the same MP while Drk has a low MP cost to put Darkside back on but has a steep MP cost to put Grit back up if you ever drop it. Why is this?

It's because it doesn't cost you anything to reach your max DPS potential, you just cancel Grit.
PLD spend MP to be in Shield Oath AND to be in Sword Oath.

In fact, swinging back and forth cost more as a PLD. At lvl 60, each Oath cost 884 MP while Grit "only" cost 1326.

[Brannigan]

It's because they designed MP restoration on Riot Blade before shield oath and sword oath, but then they realized paladin had like nothing to spend MP on so they made oaths spells.

[Freyyy]

This is especially because the immediate follow up combo's (Delirium and Soul Eater) both employ Mp regen along with Carve and Spit, which I typically use to fuel additional uses of DA-Soul Eater.

You should never use C&S without DA unless AoEing on 4+ mobs. In fact, C&S should be your first priority to DA. This is the most mana efficient DA because you gain 350 potency for doing it while you gain 140 potency for a DA SE, and 100 potency per mob hit for a DA DP. You should never start with a full MP bar since you should DA before you Unmend + Plunge and spend this DA on C&S right after your first GCD (which should be Scourge).

[Ashkendor]

If your healer notices a 5% discrepancy, you're doing something wrong as a tank.

Isn't it 10%? That can actually be pretty substantial. I know I make sure to get RoH up on Thordan before he stomps my face.

[Februs]

While we are on the subject of wasting MP, it always bothered me that Paladin's stances to sift into them they both cost the same MP while Drk has a low MP cost to put Darkside back on but has a steep MP cost to put Grit back up if you ever drop it. Why is this?

I think it has a lot to do with what Reynhart already mentioned, primarily being that it is a simple thing for a Drk to just drop Grit at 0 cost and then use Blood Weapon to make back their MP before reapplying Grit. The price does seem steep, but if you are in control of your tanking (aside from unforeseen circumstances that cause additional MP drains, say ... like suicidal Dps pulling more than you intended), the cost of stance dancing for a Drk is less than a Pld, who has to pay for their stance each and every time but have far less tools to rebuild their mp pool. Honestly, the only reason they even get away with it is because they don't really have anything else to spend their Mp on (besides Clemency, but that was never intended to be spammed or over used).

Also, when Drk first came out there was a lot of chat on the Tank forums discussing whether or not Darkside qualified as a "stance" or as a "buff." I don't think SE has ever really stated an opinion on this one way or another, and there were some pretty obstinate people in the forums who tyrannically decided on arbitrary definitions in their silence, and some argued that the high Mp cost was in favour of a buff. I recall someone making the claim that, because Darkside is the most powerful "buff" int the game, it stood to reason that it had an extremely steep Mp cost... or something along those lines. Personally, I think this is nonsense and these people were just speaking out of the mouths they sit on, but to each their own.

[Freyyy]

while Drk has a low MP cost to put Darkside back on but has a steep MP cost to put Grit back up if you ever drop it. Why is this? Is it because Blood Weapon and Price means we can afford that 1.3k price to go back into tank stance?

Darkside costs way more MP than Grit over time.