"Ser" and female Knights

[Culfinrandir]

Took a little bit of research but you're right. My bad.

Not your bad at all, the Internet's bad. All it takes is someone to make an assumption based on Song of Ice & Fire (which is how this one started) or similar and it ends up getting repeated until it is 'fact'.

Even reputable websites will tell you Ser is a female or 'genderqueer' version of Sir used since Mediaeval times in England. Complete fabrication but it takes a lot of delving to find the truth, as you discovered! =)

[Velox]

It doesn't change the fact that it's a fictional world with fictional rules around fictional honorifics. :P

SE decided on "ser" for the hell of it. That's the only reason.

[Februs]

Actually Ser is not English at all, it is Italian and was used by notaries & lawyers with an equivalence to Sir in English. It would never be used in England at all. A lot of people think it is to do with gender but that's a modern Internet concept. Simply put, women could never (and technically still can never) use the Sir/Ser honorific.

I'm pretty sure it's also a conjugation in Spanish and French as well. I'm really rusty on my French, but I'm almost positive it has a French form. All of the "romantic languages" find their roots in Latin, as does the verb "ser," so they should all have a form of it. I just don't recall what they all are. Given that English derives from Saxon (before borrowing a lot from Latin and later French), Ser does not have any linguistic relation. Still, you are most certainly correct. I am impressed you pointed it out.

[Februs]

It doesn't change the fact that it's a fictional world with fictional rules around fictional honorifics. :P

SE decided on "ser" for the hell of it. That's the only reason.

That is, unless it was an error of translation or something. Your point actually makes me curious if they use the same honorifics in the original Japanese text, or if they follow their own honorifics, which would not translate very well to English...It would be an interesting discrepancy between the two versions if there was a difference though. Not at all relevant to the content, mind you, but interesting, especially if you have any inclinations towards linguistics.

[Culfinrandir]

I'm pretty sure it's also a conjugation in Spanish and French as well. I'm really rusty on my French, but I'm almost positive it has a French form. All of the "romantic languages" find their roots in Latin, <snip>, Ser does not have any linguistic relation. Still, you are most certainly correct. I am impressed you pointed it out.

Ser is a verb in Spanish - to be/have (permanent status). For example, you would say Soy Ingles - I am English, rather than use Tener (to be/have - impermanent) which is used thusly Tengo hambre - I am hungry.

Ser in the honourific is not related to Ser the verb. It's, to all intents and purposes, just the Italian way of saying Esquire as it's aimed at notaries and lawyers. In America I know many lawyers still use Esquire as an honourific whereas it has pretty much died out in the UK. Possibly it remains in the USA due to a large Italian diaspora.

[ChazNatlo]

In America I know many lawyers still use Esquire as an honourific whereas it has pretty much died out in the UK. Possibly it remains in the USA due to a large Italian diaspora.

Been a while, but I also seem to recall that many lawyers and the like use Esquire because unlike Doctor or certain acronyms, Esquire doesn't have any governing laws regarding it's use. It makes you sound special and significant, but anyone can use it.

But to the topic of the thread, the feminine use of the title "Sir" in modern society, when not used in reference to a knighthood, is a pointed ungendering of the person. You refer to a female superior as "Sir" rather than "Ma'am" because you are giving due respect to their position, rather than the person themselves. The same may or may not apply to female knights in this setting ((Which is far from a sexually equal setting, but the point may be that they give women who fight the masculine title because they wish to ignore considerations of gender in their active fighting force. Our modern Sirs and Dames aren't necessarily expected to fight, and when they were, we weren't expecting women to fight, correct?))

[Cilia]

Ultimately, the point is that "ser" is derived from the Italian "messere," or mister / master. It was used primarily in and around Florence (hence its gratuitous use in Ezio's Assassin's Creed games). It's intended to be used exclusively for males.

However, the popularity of various pieces of media (Game of Thrones and, to the gaming circle, Dragon Age) has seen the "ser" title be used outside of the Italian context as a generic, gender-neutral title for knights. SE probably just carried it over as an easy way to recognize when the person someone's talking about is a knight - hence, "Ser Heusteinne."

[Februs]

Ser is a verb in Spanish - to be/have (permanent status). For example, you would say Soy Ingles - I am English, rather than use Tener (to be/have - impermanent) which is used thusly Tengo hambre - I am hungry.

I am aware.That would be why I specified "conjugation," as in a conjugated verb. I just didn't want to embarrass myself by trying to recall what the exact forms of the verb, since I'm am ridiculously rusty in both French and Spanish (though, I think the French form is also to be/have... Kinda makes me wish I kept up with it).

In any case, I was only pointing out that all three languages do derive from Latin, and that includes the traditional use of Ser in Italian, which derives from messer or messere which, in French, would be more commonly known as monsieur or sieur, which would derive from the Latin Sieur or more commonly senior. Culturally, the words developed different meanings (with Italian taking the most formal, as I can't off the top of my head, think of any term that translates to esquire in French or Spanish....) when they all split from their root, but they all come from the same place and are respectful ways of referring to an elder or superior.

[Culfinrandir]

Februs -

Indeed, I apologise if I came off snooty in my reply. I was trying to agree with you but my train of thought often wanders, especially if I have to shoehorn an answer into the appalling character limit. It's even worse on a mobile as no editing is allowed and every time I use preview it screws with the letters! I think you & Cilia have hit the nail on the head with the Latin diminutive honourific origin (Signore/Señor etc). =}

[Februs]

Februs -

Indeed, I apologise if I came off snooty in my reply. I was trying to agree with you but my train of thought often wanders, especially if I have to shoehorn an answer into the appalling character limit. It's even worse on a mobile as no editing is allowed and every time I use preview it screws with the letters! I think you & Cilia have hit the nail on the head with the Latin diminutive honourific origin (Signore/Señor etc). =}

Not at all! I was actually looking forward to your response. You seem to have great insight. Your explanation of the Spanish verb was very good. I also agree with your account of fantasy and pop-culture references becoming misguided facts. The only question I'd have in this case is if it was something that was actually written into the script in the original Japanese, or if someone working on the translation took the liberty or making a change. I apologize if I came off snooty, myself.

I also sympathize with the mobile responses. I've seen posts turn out radically different than what the poster intended. Your responses have been quite solid in comparison to some of the one's I've had to try and translate in other corners of the forums.