Are my mitigation numbers off ?

[Reynhart]

Hi everyone.

I'm still hearing here and there that PLD is THE mitigation tank.
So, I've made a little calculation, and the results really bug me.

Let's see what each tank can do on "average" mitigation : Mitigation*(Duration/Recast)
(For the sake of calculation, we'll put each tank on an appropriate target. Block and Parry can be fully used, as well as Magical mitigation, tank will also fully focused on mitigation, so 100% uptime for mitigation comboes)

PLD:

• Rampart : 20*(20/90) = 4.44%
• Sentinel : 40*(10/180) = 2.22%
• Bulwark : (Let's be generous and consider 100% Block rate for the 15s) 30*(15/180) = 2.5
• Sheltron : 30*(3/30) = 3% (3s is close enough to cover "one hit")
• Rage Of Halone : 10% (I thinks its a little lower, but can't find the proper number)
• Hallowed Ground : 100*(10/420) = 2.38%

Total active mitigation : 24,55%

WAR:

• Storm's Path : 10%
• Vengeance : 30*(15/120) = 3.75%
• Inner Beast : 20*(6/15) = 8% (With a GCD on 2.5 seconds, you can do 24 GCD during each Infuriate, so 8 combos. Without any additionnal CD, 8 combos gives you 16 stacks of Wrath, so at least 3 Inner Beast + 1 from Infuriate. So one each 15s on average)
• Raw Intuition : 20*(20/90) = 4.44%
• Since Holmgang is not really a "mitigation" skill, I won't include it

Total active mitigation : 26,19%

DRK:

• Shadowskin : 20*(20/90) = 4.44%
• Shadow Wall : 30*(10/180) = 1.67%
• Reprisal : (Since Dark Dance has a 60s recast, and you can at least have one parry on its duration, I'll count one Reprisal per minute) 10*(20/60) = 3.33%
• Dark Dance : (A bit tricky, but with a proper set, you can probably parry half the hits during its duration, so, around 10s of mitigation) 20*(10/60) = 3.33%
• Dark Mind : (All with Dark Arts, since mitigation is the main goal) 30*(10/60) = 5%
• Delirium : 10% (See Rage Of Halone above)
• Walking Dead : (See Holmgang)

Total active mitigation : 27,78%

Ok, I know some numbers are only approximations, especially for unreliable CD, and I know that PLD offers an additionnal passive mitigation with Shield+Parry, but isn't it a bit odd that PLD is probably the lowest when it comes to active mitigation ?

Also, I've purposefully left Holmgang and Walking Dead so WAR and DRK keep their "Oh, shit !" button available while accumulating more active mitigation than PLD.

So, did I really screwed my calculation, or is PLD talking the low end even when it comes to mitigation ?

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

The "PLD is mitigation king" thinking is wrong and has been proven as such numerous times.

[Jpec07]

I think to get a full sense for it, you'd also need to calculate in effective block rate/amount and effective parry rate when geared in BiS gear. I think a lot of people underestimate the usefulness of Block and Parry as a means to mitigation, simply because they aren't "reliable" enough to guarantee mitigation against tankbusters. Though finding the effective mitigation value might not be so straightforward, since the calculations themselves are based on so many factors. This is further complicated by the fact that FFXIV doesn't have a lot of tank damage going out in general, and so RNG mitigation isn't nearly as valuable. Even further troubling is the block strength stat varying from shield to shield.

I think that when you account for the mitigation accomplished by shields, PLD will generally take less damage. Even if the effective block rate is only 25%/25%, that's still an extra 6.75% of incoming physical damage that is mitigated (parry is similar, only you don't have to worry about the strength of the parry: 25% parry is 5% physical damage, not accounting for Crit). The problem is that white damage isn't what will kill you. Without tankbusters, it would probably only take a 160 tank to survive the damage ticks in most of Alexander Savage (I'm pulling this out of thin air, but the autoattacks didn't seem to hurt that much). What will kill you is the tankbuster that hits for 35k(?) raw damage when unmitigated.

So in reality, yes, PLD does take more damage, because they have the poorest ability to mitigate special attacks, and are built around physical-damage-intensive mitigation. If there was a fight that dealt 1000 physical damage every half second, PLD would reign supreme. It may be advisable to add in a calculation for magic damage, since a number of the abilities won't work for that. Dark Arts also does some interesting things to cooldowns, making some of them stronger, but isn't up 100% of the time, which further obfuscates the calculation.

Your calculation also assumes 100% usage of all cooldowns, and doesn't account for cross-class skills as of my writing this reply.

[Reynhart]

I think to get a full sense for it, you'd also need to calculate in effective block rate/amount and effective parry rate when geared in BiS gear.

Isn't Parry useless when Block procs ? Meaning that DRK and WAR also gain more than PLD from stacking Parry.

Yes, my calculation assumes 100% usage. With shorter and more frequent mitigation, I think it'd only widen the gap in favor of WAR.
Also, I feel I've been a little generous with PLD or DRK, where as WAR's mitigation seems pretty accurate.
As for cross-class skill, the only real mitigation skill is Foresight, which is also better on WAR.

[Jpec07]

Isn't Parry useless when Block procs ? Meaning that DRK and WAR also gain more than PLD from stacking Parry.

Yes, my calculation assumes 100% usage, with a little "generous" part for PLD. With shorter and more frequent mitigation, I think it'd only widen the gap in favor of WAR.

It is, so you'd need to include that in the calculation as well (since the interplay between block rate and parry rate is complicated). So effectively, a parry rate of 25% would only affect those physical hits that couldn't be blocked, so (100-{blockRate})% * {parryRate}%. Assuming 25% for both, that's 25% of 75%, or 18.25% (times .2 is only 3.65% mitigation, versus the 5% it would have been otherwise).

Mind, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just a little bit of a math nut, so number charts fascinate the hell out of me. XD

What also needs to be considered is the affect of WAR stacks in Determination that stack 4% every 2.5s up to +20% Parry. Hand in hand with this is the amount of time a WAR spends between hitting their instawrath button and whatever they use it on. Self-heals are also a component here that should be considered, since they contribute to total mitigation.

[Reynhart]

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just a little bit of a math nut, so number charts fascinate the hell out of me. XD

I'm not saying you are
I explicitely asked for anything that seems off in my calculation.

[Giantbane]

[*]Rage Of Halone : 10% (I thinks its a little lower, but can't find the proper number)[*]Delirium : 10% (See Rage Of Halone above)

I used to think it was lower, but more recent testing seems to put it right around 10%. I don't know if it changed or always worked like this, but I think 10% is pretty safe now.


Other than that, I would split into physical and magical since they're distinct and different forms of mitigation.

It's also important to mention some other skills like Thrill of Battle, Convalescence and Foresight. Foresight's something like 8% which is respectable enough to be included. Convalescence on its own is a little tricky since it only covers half of what mitigation does, but when paired with Thrill of Battle, the two basically function as a 17% Rampart for all intents and purposes (as Defiance with its +hp and +heals functions similarly to Shield Oath). Of course both of those also come with the drawback that both Convalescence and Defiance's heal bonus does not currently apply to heal skills such as Lustrate (which is a goofy distinction, but it's the way it works none the less).

The other thing is that Inner Beast represents one less Fell Cleave, Steel Cyclone, Decimate or Unchained used. That sort of trade off isn't present at all for PLD, and only very limited for DRK when considering DA + Dark Mind.

[Jpec07]

I'm not saying you are
I explicitely asked for anything that seems off in my calculation.

I don't see anything inherently wrong, no, though I do think it may be oversimplifying mitigation a little bit.

[Reynhart]

Lots of points

• Foresight : Available for all tanks, and better with WAR
• Convalescence, Thrill Of Batlle and other Healing Bonus : Tricky, because they don't work with everything...and WAR has more reliable healing boost and self healing skills.
• Fell Cleave : The focus of the calculation is mitigation. If PLD is supposed to be the best at mitigation, WAR and DRK shouldn't be able to top it, never. Besides, if you take into account Fell Cleave, it means stance dancing. And stance Dancing is, again, more beneficial to WAR.

As for physical vs magical, I wanted to take each tanks in the ideal situation, because any real number will just be below...and again, WAR will probably be the closest, since he'll only lose one CD (Which is still useful for the free stack) to magical foes, whereas PLD lose Bulwark, Sheltron and Rage Of Halone, and DRK loses Dark Dance and Reprisal. And for physical foes, only DRK loses something.

I don't see anything inherently wrong, no, though I do think it may be oversimplifying mitigation a little bit.

It is.
Because meta doesn't rely on average mitigation, but on spike damage...which is, again (I'm starting to see a pattern here) useful for WAR, since they have the shorter delay on their mitigation.

[Launched]

Average mitigation isn't everything. PLD uses cooldowns individually and gets the full benefit of them. WAR and DRK stack Inner Beast and Dark Mind with other cooldowns which means that they're less effective. Sentinel itself is 40%, Inner Beast+Vengeance is only 44%, not 50%.