Are my mitigation numbers off ?

[Februs]

If something like that would be implemented You are definitly right that it should not have 100% uptime, maybe a 5s vulnerability after shild swipe (so at most 33% uptime but i'm not sure if that is still to strong), the other Problem would be not having it while OT.

Exactly why Shied swipe is the absolute worst move to modify out of all of Pld's skill set. It has to be proc'd to be used. This means that changing the effect of Shield Swipe would be severely limiting the utility of Pld's. For one, to even use it you basically must be MT. It's for this reason that Shield Swipe was never considered a good way of maintaining TP. OT Pld's are constantly screwed, and that's crap. Any changes made should consider the possibility of Pld OT'ing as well as the possibility that the boss simply doesn't attack physically (A4, anyone?). Not to mention the fact that you would be basing a large part of Pld utility on random chance. I disagree with that on principle. Whatever changes they make should be based on player skill, not luck.

[Giantbane]

Exactly why Shied swipe is the absolute worst move to modify out of all of Pld's skill set. It has to be proc'd to be used. This means that changing the effect of Shield Swipe would be severely limiting the utility of Pld's. For one, to even use it you basically must be MT. It's for this reason that Shield Swipe was never considered a good way of maintaining TP. OT Pld's are constantly screwed, and that's crap. Any changes made should consider the possibility of Pld OT'ing as well as the possibility that the boss simply doesn't attack physically (A4, anyone?). Not to mention the fact that you would be basing a large part of Pld utility on random chance. I disagree with that on principle. Whatever changes they make should be based on player skill, not luck.

It was a good idea to adjust that move as they did. DRK & WAR have specific DPS boosts for when they are getting hit or when they're in tank stance to improve MT DPS. This finally brings something like that to the PLD to close the DPS gap a little while tanking.

If there was a problem, it's that there weren't more adjustments.

[Februs]

It was a good idea to adjust that move as they did. DRK & WAR have specific DPS boosts for when they are getting hit or when they're in tank stance to improve MT DPS. This finally brings something like that to the PLD to close the DPS gap a little while tanking.

This is actually false.

It is a fact that taking Shield Swipe off of the GCD improves Pld Dps on Bosses; however, the amount of Dps gained is marginal (as in nearly pointless, especially with the potency nerf inflicted on SW) and there are HUGE trade offs for this tiny concession. Without going into specific numbers, Mob tanking/enmity/mitigation/and dmg as well as general Tp consumption have gotten immensely worse on Pld because of this change.

Shield Swipe no longer acts as a stopgap for Plds, because it no longer delays their primary combos. There are now ZERO interruption to Pld Tp consumption (unless you include Flash, which does ZERO dmg and hurts party dps output), so they can burn their Tp bar like it's going out of fashion. This used to be a problem mostly for boss fights, but now it can be seen even in Mob tanking. Pld's no longer have the option of threading their Primary combos with Shield Swipe, so their RoH combo can only be interrupted by Flash. To hold aggro efficiently, they have now been restricted to using Flash more often which, again, hurts dmg values.

Mob tanking itself has taken a hit because of this. Pld's no longer have the ability to exploit Shield Swipe as a means of holding mob aggro. After 3.0 you could run into a mob, Shield Lob > Flash > and then cycle your RoH combo with Shield Swipes threaded in between each move (FB > SW > SB > SW > RoH etc). If you made sure you had RoH land on a different target every time, you reduced your overall incoming dmg using the debuff while maxing your enmity on that target. If you did the same thing with Shield Swipe (alternated a new target each time) you were maxing enmity while debuffing with Pacify. If you were doing a bigger pull you could pop Bulwark to make this rotation even more efficient. If you spread your enmity well enough using Shield Swipe, you could even forego the use of RoH after one or two applications in favour of Goring Blade to increase your Dps even further. It got to the point where, if you knew how to do this really well, a Pld needed no more than 1 or 2 Flashes to hold aggro and it was all about dealing pure dmg while increasing mitigation. For a blissfully short time, we weren't miles behind War's and Drks on holding mob aggro while outputting Dps and were even a little ahead in terms of mob mitigation because of Pacify/RoH applications. Now we can't do this nearly as efficiently.

TL;DR:
Pros of taking SW off the GCD: Minuscule increase to Pld Dps on Bosses

Cons: Reduced Enmity on Mobs. Reduced Dmg on Mobs. Reduced dmg mitigation on mobs. Increased Tp consumption without respite. Reduced efficiency and utility of Bulwark/Shelltron.

Verdict: Was taking Shield Swipe off of the GCD a "good" change? In short, no.

[Launched]

Shield Swipe complaints

Taking Shield Swipe off GCD was a good change. It adds the same amount of DPS as Spirits Within/Circle of Scorn in single target (~50 with a Thordan weapon and STR accessories). If you ever used Shield Swipe in 3.1 you were honestly just wasting GCDs. The TP you saved likely wouldn't be enough to make up for the damage you lost, and using it on trash pulls is an even bigger waste because it means you're not applying Goring (your highest potency ability) to multiple targets. I've never had trouble holding aggro with a couple of Flashes followed by a buffed Circle of Scorn, with another Flash or two later for the blind. I don't need the tiny damage reduction from having Halone up on 2.5 targets, or from pacification.

[Februs]

Taking Shield Swipe off GCD was a good change. It adds the same amount of DPS as Spirits Within/Circle of Scorn in single target (~50 with a Thordan weapon and STR accessories).

Firstly, I never said that the change to Shield Swipe was a Dps loss on single targets. I actually said that it was a Dps gain on bosses (single targets). Of this there is no doubt. However, that does not mean that it is a "good" change, and it does not change the fact that it is absolutely a Dps loss when Mob tanking in dungeons.

To give you some perspective, the way it is right now and assuming 100% proc rate at 15s (which is highly unlikely since the restriction ensures you cannot use Bulwark and Shelltron efficiently, but whatever) you can use 2 complete RoH combos (2.5s recast speed per move, x3 = (7.5s) x2 = 15s) for every single use of Shield Swipe. Now, with the combo potencies of Fast Blade (150), Savage Blade (200) and RoH (260) that averages out to a total combo potency of 1220 in which the first move of every combo does not generate enmity.

Compare that to pre 3.1 in which you could replace every RoH with Shield Swipe: Shield Swipes old combo potency (before the 3.1 nerf) was 210). Assuming a 100% proc rate (which, I should point out, was actually possible to achieve before 3.1 by using Bulwark and Shelltron efficiently), you would be using 6 Shield Swipes. This totals out to 1260 potency in which every single hit generates enmity. That's more dmg than RoH and more enmity gen than RoH when Mob Tanking, assuming you know what you're doing and are rotating targets accordingly.

Now, you're right (and wrong...actually. Goring Blade is NOT a Pld's highest potency move. Royal Authority trumps it with a total combined potency of 680, as opposed to Goring Blade's combined potency of 640, including the DoT) to say that using Goring Blade is the best way to boost Mob Dps using Pld, but, compared to before, it is far less efficient. You were able before to cycle Shield Swipe between each GB's, your Dmg output was much higher than rotating Flash to keep mob aggro. In place of this, you advocate for:

a couple of Flashes followed by a buffed Circle of Scorn, with another Flash or two later for the blind. I don't need the tiny damage reduction from having Halone up on 2.5 targets, or from pacification.

For holding enmity, sure. That's fine, but if you had to use any more than ONE Flash to hold mob enmity before the 3.1 nerf than you were most certainly NOT maximizing your Dps output, and it's really not hard to work out the math on that. Flash Does ZERO dmg and still delays your primary combo. A rotated Shield Swipe combo delays your primary, but far exceeds Flash and even RoH in Dps.

Lastly (and this is the nitpicky stuff), you cannot compare Shield Swipe to CoS or Spirits within. For one, CoS does 100 potency (+30 with DoT) on ALL targets. Unless you are only tanking one or two mobs at a time for some bizarre reason, Shield Swipe could never compare to the combined potency or enmity of CoS. Comparing Shield Swipe to Spirits Within is a little better (if we are only concerned with Boss Dps increase), but, again, in terms of mob tanking the two moves are incompatible. Spirit's Within is purely for Dmg and has neutral enmity. Shield Swipe is supposed to be a enmity gain (it doubles utility in the sense of mob tanking). The two moves don't have a comparable function unless in a boss environment.

Now, I'm not just saying this stuff to be like "change is bad, yo!" Most Pld's actually like the change because it's easier. It's basically a one and done button now. You don't really have to think about the best way to use it because there is only one way, but it does not mean that the one way is universally better. The numbers back it up, and have been worked out before by other people who put a lot more detail in it than I just did. Even in Boss environments, the change to Shield Swipe can shackle a Pld, because the amount of Dps they gain from the OGCD is potentially nerfed by the amount of TP they stand to lose. A full spec'd Pld can burn their Tp bar dry in under 3 minutes. What do you think they do when it's empty? Flash. Clemency... that's pretty much it. Both moves don't even do dmg, so overall dps is greatly reduced. The only option is to look for opportunities to interrupt their own combos. Meaning Pld's have to find ways to sabotage their own rotation just to stay in the fight... that's better how, exactly?

Not to mention the killed utility of Bulwark and Shelltron. Due to the OGCD, Plds can no longer efficiently plan the use of each move to maximize utility, because shield swipe might be on cooldown or just proc by itself. Bulwark can only get ONE use out of Sheild Swipe anyway, so it's not even worth saving. Both moves are now used on GC, instead of used as a means of boosting Pld's abilities and conserving TP (as it used to be common for Pld's to utilize Bulwark to proc additional Shield Swipes to keep their Tp bar from flat lining).

This isn't, necesarrily, a bad change. It could be good... but not alone. @GiantBane was right about that. Without additional changes to justify the massive dip in utility caused by this change, it's nothing but a nerf to any Pld who actually knew how to maximize their utility.