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  1. #1
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Ul'Dah
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    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by eagledorf View Post
    On average your Sheltron increases mitigation by 26% so it's still an excellent skill.
    How do you obtain that number ?

    If your shield blocks 30% of damage 15% of the time, it means the average mitigation is 4.5%

    At most, Sheltron's "effective" duration is 3s (Less on multiple targets, but never more, since it only blocks one hit). It means that it mitigates 30%, of damage, at most, 10% of the overall time (Duration/Recast) for, at most, 3% average mitigation.
    On the 90% remaining time, your basic block rate applies., so 90%*4.5% = 4.05%

    So, by combining Sheltron and passive Block, you obtain 3%+4.05% = 7,05%.

    The benefit of Shletron is not to mitigate a lot more, but mitigate more reliably.
    (0)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 11-24-2015 at 08:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Freyyy's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
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    Character
    Freyja Redgold
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    How do you obtain that number ?
    Because it increases your block rate from 15% to 100% for the hit you want to mitigate.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    CGMidlander's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    Character
    Height Error
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    How do you obtain that number ?

    If your shield blocks 30% of damage 15% of the time, it means the average mitigation is 4.5%

    At most, Sheltron's "effective" duration is 3s (Less on multiple targets, but never more, since it only blocks one hit). It means that it mitigates 30%, of damage, at most, 10% of the overall time (Duration/Recast) for, at most, 3% average mitigation.
    On the 90% remaining time, your basic block rate applies., so 90%*4.5% = 4.05%

    So, by combining Sheltron and passive Block, you obtain 3%+4.05% = 7,05%.

    The benefit of Shletron is not to mitigate a lot more, but mitigate more reliably.
    Using average mitigation is a flawed way of looking at how things work in practice, since the game is largely focused on mitigating (predictable) tank busters. If average mitigation mattered much, then parry wouldn't be regarded as such a crap stat. (Well, it'd still be bad because it scales poorly, but you know what I mean right?)
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Freyyy's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
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    1,079
    Character
    Freyja Redgold
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    How do you obtain that number ?

    If your shield blocks 30% of damage 15% of the time, it means the average mitigation is 4.5%

    At most, Sheltron's "effective" duration is 3s (Less on multiple targets, but never more, since it only blocks one hit). It means that it mitigates 30%, of damage, at most, 10% of the overall time (Duration/Recast) for, at most, 3% average mitigation.
    On the 90% remaining time, your basic block rate applies., so 90%*4.5% = 4.05%

    So, by combining Sheltron and passive Block, you obtain 3%+4.05% = 7,05%.

    The benefit of Shletron is not to mitigate a lot more, but mitigate more reliably.
    He was speaking about when you toggle Sheltron to mitigate a specific attack. Even if you could also have blocked it WITHOUT Sheltron, using Sheltron still increases your average mitigation FOR THE INCOMING HIT by 26% with a 30% block strength shield in comparison to if you didn't use Sheltron.

    Average sustained mitigation doesn't matter in this game.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
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    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by CGMidlander View Post
    Using average mitigation is a flawed way of looking at how things work in practice
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyyy View Post
    Average sustained mitigation doesn't matter in this game.
    Yes, you're right.
    There is just a tiny little bit of a problem with this.
    PLD most definitive tool is its shield...which provides...average...mitigation.

    Not having a shield doesn't prevent you from having mitigation skills so, the fact that Bulwark or Sheltron use it is just cosmetic.

    So again, one of the claimed definitive advantage of PLD is, at best, flawed, at least, a blatant lie.

    Damn quota....
    Answer to below:
    Quote Originally Posted by CGMidlander View Post
    Its boost to block rate is significant enough to be reliably useful when pulling a large amount of mobs in dungeons, for example.
    Yes, it is.
    But dungeons are hardly challenging. And for larger pulls, Bloodbath+Spam-Overpower or Blood Price+Spam-(DA)Abyssal Drain provides far more "mitigation" than Bulwark.
    Without talking about the AoE enmity and damage gap...
    (0)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 11-24-2015 at 09:11 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    CGMidlander's Avatar
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    Height Error
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    Jenova
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    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    So again, one of the claimed definitive advantage of PLD is, at best, flawed, at least, a blatant lie.
    I can't say I disagree with you on that.

    But Bulwark does have its uses outside of boss fights. Its boost to block rate is significant enough to be reliably useful when pulling a large amount of mobs in dungeons, for example.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    CGMidlander's Avatar
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    Height Error
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    Jenova
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    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    Answer to below:

    Yes, it is.
    But dungeons are hardly challenging. And for larger pulls, Bloodbath+Spam-Overpower or Blood Price+Spam-(DA)Abyssal Drain provides far more "mitigation" than Bulwark.
    Without talking about the AoE enmity and damage gap...
    Aye upon further thought, I'm not sure where I was going with that point. It's probably my mind trailing off.
    (0)