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  1. #1
    Player
    Jpec07's Avatar
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    Matthias Gendrin
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    I think to get a full sense for it, you'd also need to calculate in effective block rate/amount and effective parry rate when geared in BiS gear. I think a lot of people underestimate the usefulness of Block and Parry as a means to mitigation, simply because they aren't "reliable" enough to guarantee mitigation against tankbusters. Though finding the effective mitigation value might not be so straightforward, since the calculations themselves are based on so many factors. This is further complicated by the fact that FFXIV doesn't have a lot of tank damage going out in general, and so RNG mitigation isn't nearly as valuable. Even further troubling is the block strength stat varying from shield to shield.

    I think that when you account for the mitigation accomplished by shields, PLD will generally take less damage. Even if the effective block rate is only 25%/25%, that's still an extra 6.75% of incoming physical damage that is mitigated (parry is similar, only you don't have to worry about the strength of the parry: 25% parry is 5% physical damage, not accounting for Crit). The problem is that white damage isn't what will kill you. Without tankbusters, it would probably only take a 160 tank to survive the damage ticks in most of Alexander Savage (I'm pulling this out of thin air, but the autoattacks didn't seem to hurt that much). What will kill you is the tankbuster that hits for 35k(?) raw damage when unmitigated.

    So in reality, yes, PLD does take more damage, because they have the poorest ability to mitigate special attacks, and are built around physical-damage-intensive mitigation. If there was a fight that dealt 1000 physical damage every half second, PLD would reign supreme. It may be advisable to add in a calculation for magic damage, since a number of the abilities won't work for that. Dark Arts also does some interesting things to cooldowns, making some of them stronger, but isn't up 100% of the time, which further obfuscates the calculation.

    Your calculation also assumes 100% usage of all cooldowns, and doesn't account for cross-class skills as of my writing this reply.
    (2)
    Last edited by Jpec07; 11-24-2015 at 04:02 AM.
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  2. #2
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
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    Ul'Dah
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    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jpec07 View Post
    I think to get a full sense for it, you'd also need to calculate in effective block rate/amount and effective parry rate when geared in BiS gear.
    Isn't Parry useless when Block procs ? Meaning that DRK and WAR also gain more than PLD from stacking Parry.

    Yes, my calculation assumes 100% usage. With shorter and more frequent mitigation, I think it'd only widen the gap in favor of WAR.
    Also, I feel I've been a little generous with PLD or DRK, where as WAR's mitigation seems pretty accurate.
    As for cross-class skill, the only real mitigation skill is Foresight, which is also better on WAR.
    (0)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 11-24-2015 at 04:07 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Jpec07's Avatar
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    Matthias Gendrin
    World
    Cactuar
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    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    Isn't Parry useless when Block procs ? Meaning that DRK and WAR also gain more than PLD from stacking Parry.

    Yes, my calculation assumes 100% usage, with a little "generous" part for PLD. With shorter and more frequent mitigation, I think it'd only widen the gap in favor of WAR.
    It is, so you'd need to include that in the calculation as well (since the interplay between block rate and parry rate is complicated). So effectively, a parry rate of 25% would only affect those physical hits that couldn't be blocked, so (100-{blockRate})% * {parryRate}%. Assuming 25% for both, that's 25% of 75%, or 18.25% (times .2 is only 3.65% mitigation, versus the 5% it would have been otherwise).

    Mind, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just a little bit of a math nut, so number charts fascinate the hell out of me. XD

    What also needs to be considered is the affect of WAR stacks in Determination that stack 4% every 2.5s up to +20% Parry. Hand in hand with this is the amount of time a WAR spends between hitting their instawrath button and whatever they use it on. Self-heals are also a component here that should be considered, since they contribute to total mitigation.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jpec07; 11-24-2015 at 04:15 AM.
    __________________________
    A dungeon party with two summoners always makes me egi.

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  4. #4
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
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    Reynhart Kristensen
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    Ragnarok
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jpec07 View Post
    I'm not disagreeing, I'm just a little bit of a math nut, so number charts fascinate the hell out of me. XD
    I'm not saying you are
    I explicitely asked for anything that seems off in my calculation.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Jpec07's Avatar
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    Matthias Gendrin
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    I'm not saying you are
    I explicitely asked for anything that seems off in my calculation.
    I don't see anything inherently wrong, no, though I do think it may be oversimplifying mitigation a little bit.
    (0)
    __________________________
    A dungeon party with two summoners always makes me egi.

    Beginner's Overview to Tanking in FFXIV: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/352455
    Learn to Play (it's not what you think): http://www.l2pnoob.org/

  6. #6
    Player Februs's Avatar
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    Character
    Februs Harrow
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jpec07 View Post
    It is, so you'd need to include that in the calculation as well (since the interplay between block rate and parry rate is complicated). So effectively, a parry rate of 25% would only affect those physical hits that couldn't be blocked, so (100-{blockRate})% * {parryRate}%. Assuming 25% for both, that's 25% of 75%, or 18.25% (times .2 is only 3.65% mitigation, versus the 5% it would have been otherwise).
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Awareness also skew this number? Using it typically increases the efficiency of Bulwark because Crits can't normally be blocked or parry'd... Though I'm not sure how the heck you'd work that into the math...
    (0)