Implications of a Dungeon Finder

[Frein]

WOW's dungeon finder didn't kill guild and friend dungeon runs. Stop being such a neighsayer.

I never said it did. It killed your ability to make new friends and build a community.

[Wolfie]

I never said it did. It killed your ability to make new friends and build a community.

No it didn't. I had no problems meeting new people and getting into guilds.

What killed my ability to make friends was how fluid WOW's leveling model was and how characters were completely throwaway things. That's something that's not the case with FFXIV; you don't change characters in this game like you do pairs of socks.

[Synfrag]

The problem with WoW is not the dungeon finder itself but the dungeons. They are so smash and grab that you would have to have naked people running through them to fail. Hopefully, SE does not make that mistake. Besides, far less (not none) asshats play FF than WoW because it's not friendly to stupid people.

As long as we have something similar to FFXI's mission system in our new main story line then random raids are fine with me. Hell, who didn't PUG BCNM/KSNM/ISNM at least occasionally. If you did, then I dare you to tell me you never failed due to someone balls crazy running in thinking they could solo all the scorps (other than a BLM ). Again, as long as the content is a challenge then I am all for it. If it becomes a smash and grab, forget it.

What worries me the most is the stupification of the community through Add-Ons

[Jinko]

The problem with WoW is not the dungeon finder itself but the dungeons. They are so smash and grab that you would have to have naked people running through them to fail. Hopefully, SE does not make that mistake. Besides, far less (not none) asshats play FF than WoW because it's not friendly to stupid people.

COMEON !! we know this is not true.

[Gukswar]

No one is forcing anyone to use it, roll with an LS or shout for a group in your world.

This is a feature for people with no social skills and won't affect any of us who actually talk to people.

This will effect you- When you spend time with people You turn into them- they turn into you-
Most of the time a person pick's up the bad habits- even though you can pick up the good habit as well-
the more people crossword the less players you see in your own server. -------- giving the access to find a dungeon will force players too all use it- hence everyone will start using that instead since it's more convenient- People never know what they got until they lose it- the same reason why every MMO make's EXP grind EASY and Fast- that itself created a big impact on future MMO- Now a day mmo's aren't even mmo anymore- all you do is log in ding 50 fight a boss log out-
Back then mmo meant- Adventure travel explore battle experience!! now MMO means
Log in Don't travel just warp Ding 50 Fight a boss fight a dungeon log out-
This to me is more of a Dota game then an mmo- This is also why sometimes i just prefer to play gimp game such as Legion of legen or Dota---... just because i'am kind of overwhelm that mmo's are no longer explore experience travel socialize and enter a new world of fantasy

[Vahzl]

With the FFXI community being as tight as it was, I wouldn't be surprised if cross realm friendships formed, as the current size of the playerbase is so low, you would continually meet the same players again and again.

[Frein]

No it didn't. I had no problems meeting new people and getting into guilds.

What killed my ability to make friends was how fluid WOW's leveling model was and how characters were completely throwaway things. That's something that's not the case with FFXIV; you don't change characters in this game like you do pairs of socks.

How could you meet the same person more than once? That's right, you didn't. Getting into a guild was based on a one-shot good experience, not continually bumping into each other like it'd work in the past.

Long time ago when I played WoW, we'd have great banter in the server forum, we'd organize fights in Alterac Valley, we'd form preset BG teams to compete with opposing preset teams. There was also plenty of world PVP. All of that instantly crumbled when cross-realm BGs were introduced. Winning a BG was no longer a matter of pride, instead we got the "let them win so I can queue again faster" crowd and bots that'd jump in one spot to not get kicked out of the BG for being AFK. Sure, the wait times were cut to a fraction of what they were, but the whole experience was invalidated. Instead of a long queue to something sweet, we got short queues to a dung heap. I know which I prefer.

With the FFXI community being as tight as it was, I wouldn't be surprised if cross realm friendships formed, as the current size of the playerbase is so low, you would continually meet the same players again and again.

I would. FFXI promoted player bonding in everything, this DF is the very opposite.

[Wolfie]

How could you meet the same person more than once? That's right, you didn't. Getting into a guild was based on a one-shot good experience, not continually bumping into each other like it'd work in the past.

People still spam LFG and Trade chats for groups. You see the same names a lot, ESPECIALLY during leveling. People still do premades for everything, and it's easy to make friends if you aren't sticking to pick-up groups made via the dungeon finder exclusively.

And why does it matter if I met that same person more than once or not? If I liked them, I would friend request them the first time. It's not a dating game, I don't need to meet up with the person more than once to determine if I want to be friends with them.

Long time ago when I played WoW, we'd have great banter in the server forum, we'd organize fights in Alterac Valley, we'd form preset BG teams to compete with opposing preset teams. There was also plenty of world PVP. All of that instantly crumbled when cross-realm BGs were introduced. Winning a BG was no longer a matter of pride, instead we got the "let them win so I can queue again faster" crowd and bots that'd jump in one spot to not get kicked out of the BG for being AFK. Sure, the wait times were cut to a fraction of what they were, but the whole experience was invalidated. Instead of a long queue to something sweet, we got short queues to a dung heap. I know which I prefer.

Throwing BGs to make it go by faster happened a long, long time after cross-realm BGs were implemented and aren't a direct result of cross-realm BGs. It's a result of people 1) finally figuring out how to exploit the system for more points, and 2) one faction always being unbalanced in a battle group. Whether or not the BGs were cross realm wouldn't have made a difference, because the scenario of one faction being more unbalanced than the other is even more extreme when you look on a server-by-server basis; and the underdog faction would have learned to throw BGs anyways, to get more points faster.

[Frein]

People still spam LFG and Trade chats for groups. You see the same names a lot, ESPECIALLY during leveling. People still do premades for everything, and it's easy to make friends if you aren't sticking to pick-up groups made via the dungeon finder exclusively.

Why would anyone bother to LFG shout with a DF in place? You're still grouping with randoms.

And why does it matter if I met that same person more than once or not? If I liked them, I would friend request them the first time. It's not a dating game, I don't need to meet up with the person more than once to determine if I want to be friends with them.

Yes, it matters a whole lot. When you play with the same people a lot naturally rather than out of a conscious attempt to make it happen, the community grows much stronger. Networks of friends' friends form and the server becomes more like a rural village than a bustling metropolis.

Throwing BGs to make it go by faster happened a long, long time after cross-realm BGs were implemented and aren't a direct result of cross-realm BGs. It's a result of people 1) finally figuring out how to exploit the system for more points, and 2) one faction always being unbalanced in a battle group. Whether or not the BGs were cross realm wouldn't have made a difference, because the scenario of one faction being more unbalanced than the other is even more extreme when you look on a server-by-server basis; and the underdog faction would have learned to throw BGs anyways, to get more points faster.

I don't know about your server(s), but EU Vashj turned from a great server with a strong community and friendly rivalry between the factions to a nameless vessel virtually overnight as soon as cross-realm BGs were added. People didn't give a crap about optimizing point gains, they fought because they wanted to win, or at the very least give the opponent hell before falling. All of this ended immediately when the floodgates were opened and all kinds of losers flowed into our BGs.

[Wolfie]

Why would anyone bother to LFG shout with a DF in place? You're still grouping with randoms.

Because people aren't zombies and realize the drawbacks of a dungeon finder, and still prefer to find a regular group of people to do content with, than to stick to strangers. It's human nature. The DF is a fall-back resource provided for people who are too lazy or cannot find a group of regulars to do content with.

It's why people are still organizing into guilds and adding people to friends lists in WOW, despite DF (and now Raid Finder) being part of the game. If DF ruins communities like you say it does, then WOW should have seen a sharp decline in guilds and guild runs, but it didn't.