FFXIV dungeons are a little bit too linear?

[Nestama]

Objectives wouldn't really work in DF content, as we all know people will prefer to quickest route. If objectives required you to make a pre-made party, then sure.

[VisRalis]

... this was more an openworld dungeon which doesn't compare well to instanced ones.

Very good point sir.

From that, I also strongly think that Dungeons as part of the open world makes it possible for non-linear design and everything associated with exploration & its risks.

[Sylve]

Anyone else remember Blackfathom Depths from back in WoW?

The problem was never the developers, its the playerbase expectations.
Blackrock Depths was my favorite dungeon in WoW, remains that way to this day despite the joke its become with all the class and mechanic changes. Still, a huge labyrinth with dozens of bosses will not be well received by the community, even if that was my favorite pastime.

The reason is that people don't want to do anything that is time consuming. You need only look at the previous dungeon releases to see what i mean. Why was Haukke HM and Brayflox HM the most popular of their respective patch cycles?
Totorak is an unpopular dungeon on the leveling path because it takes a while to get through it.
Sacrifice runs in AV too.

The answer is simple. Maximum reward for minimum effort. It would need to have the best gear ever drop within it or no one would do it. Blame the players, not the devs. Can't blame them when they know for a fact that no one would do it even if they made the content.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

snip.

Look no further than Pharos Sirius where it was a harder dungeon with the same reward that easier dungeons gave.

[TheUltimate3]

The problem was never the developers, its the playerbase expectations.
Blackrock Depths was my favorite dungeon in WoW, remains that way to this day despite the joke its become with all the class and mechanic changes. Still, a huge labyrinth with dozens of bosses will not be well received by the community, even if that was my favorite pastime.

Ah BRD. I remember fondly there was a time when I, with a random pug that I joined really by accident spent 4-6 hours going from the very top to the very bottom.

Good times. Great times.

That said, yeah I can understand the desire for awesome labyrinth style dungeons, but yeah. Does not work out well anymore. I personally cannot stand Toto-Rak, not because of all the alternative routes but because it feels longer than it actually is and every place looks the same. Felt like I was on Namek.

[Mieck]

A couple of things that would go a long way to fixing the situation with dungeons;

People say "oh, SE can build multiple routes, but nobody will run them once the most efficient path is worked out."
Fine, don't give them the choice. You can have 3 routes through each zone which is randomly determined at the start. In turn, this can lead to alternative bosses.

Also, randomise enemies. I don't mean pull them from everywhere, but make each enemy area be able to pull from a predetermined set of enemies thematically appropriate for the dungeon. Might make you have to change your play style on the fly - maybe there' are more AoEs to deal with? Maybe this will have consequences with environmental hazzards like in Dzemeal Darkhold? Maybe there are more DOTs to remove?

None of this really gets close to open world, freedom of choice dungeons, and I accept that. But it does at least allow the content to live a little bit longer.

[Tint]

after i have seen tanks in diadem... we NEED those linear dungeons, otherwise the tanks will be helpless. they have no idea what to pull and everyone try to sneak through the monsters and in the end we have a mass pull wich the tank can't handle while 2-3 monsters killing random people because the tank didn't have seen them... o.o/

[TheUltimate3]

People say "oh, SE can build multiple routes, but nobody will run them once the most efficient path is worked out."
Fine, don't give them the choice. You can have 3 routes through each zone which is randomly determined at the start. In turn, this can lead to alternative bosses.

Just so we're clear, you're talking about making a single dungeon that has 3 separate routes that are randomly generated and could lead to different bosses?

Why not just make 3 different dungeons then?


As much as it sucks, the best way to probably keep dungeons relevant for longer periods of time would be a Badge of Justice method, with Badge of Justice acquisition levels.

And for those of you that don't know, in the Burning Crusade a full completion of a heroic dungeon would reward at most was 5 Badges. Items themselves cost at most 100 badges. Which meant you were running dungeons, a lot.

Now this badge system is pure garbage for many obvious reasons, but by keeping the amount of Badges the player got very very low, but had the cost of the items very high you pretty much kept the dungeons relevant through out the entire expansion, because damnit you needed to get those badges if you weren't at the end game raids.

[Mieck]

Just so we're clear, you're talking about making a single dungeon that has 3 separate routes that are randomly generated and could lead to different bosses?

Why not just make 3 different dungeons then?

Because it just goes back to the original complaint; that dungeons are too linear. I proposed an alternative, and you said why not just do the thing the OP was complaining about. Not sure I get that...

Anyway, I'm not saying the routes are randomly generated - they will already exist. I am saying the route will be randomly determined.

[TheUltimate3]

Because it just goes back to the original complaint; that dungeons are too linear. I proposed an alternative, and you said why not just do the thing the OP was complaining about. Not sure I get that...

Anyway, I'm not saying the routes are randomly generated - they will already exist. I am saying the route will be randomly determined.

But they would still be linear if the route is randomly determined, just now instead of having the choice of going left or right, the game decided I am going right this run and damned if I wanted to go left.

I just fail to see the difference between the two.