FFXIV dungeons are a little bit too linear?

[Stanelis]

There's no point in making dungeons labyrinthine because people will always just find the shortest and fastest route to the end. Even if you were to compare MMORPG dungeons to single player RPG dungeons, you have to keep in mind that in singe player RPGs the dungeons are the meat of the gameplay, whereas in MMORPGs they are just one piece of the bigger platter of content. MMORPGs also tend to focus more on the boss challenges, not exploration, since exploration is kind of useless in a game where you are meant to do the same place multiple times.

There is a point and it is called immersion, which is quite important in a game which claims to be a RPG (and not a gear farming glamour simulator).

[xXRaineXx]

There is a point and it is called immersion, which is quite important in a game which claims to be a RPG (and not a gear farming glamour simulator).

RPG=Role Playing Game - A game whereas you role-play within the story. I think this game nailed that. WARRIORS OF LIGHT UNITE!

[Stanelis]

RPG=Role Playing Game - A game whereas you role-play within the story. I think this game nailed that. WARRIORS OF LIGHT UNITE!

Yeah right, I think I now get why the dungeons are linear.

[Khalithar]

There's no point in making dungeons labyrinthine because people will always just find the shortest and fastest route to the end. Even if you were to compare MMORPG dungeons to single player RPG dungeons, you have to keep in mind that in singe player RPGs the dungeons are the meat of the gameplay, whereas in MMORPGs they are just one piece of the bigger platter of content. MMORPGs also tend to focus more on the boss challenges, not exploration, since exploration is kind of useless in a game where you are meant to do the same place multiple times.

+1 to this. This man speaks the truth.

[Magis]

There's no point in making dungeons labyrinthine because people will always just find the shortest and fastest route to the end. Even if you were to compare MMORPG dungeons to single player RPG dungeons, you have to keep in mind that in singe player RPGs the dungeons are the meat of the gameplay, whereas in MMORPGs they are just one piece of the bigger platter of content. MMORPGs also tend to focus more on the boss challenges, not exploration, since exploration is kind of useless in a game where you are meant to do the same place multiple times.

Then let them find that route and take it if they wish? Dungeon design can give reasons to take path A over path B. Heck, Stratholm in WoW had two separate paths: Living and Dead side. People could choose either or and fight their way to the gate to get on the other side of town. Also let's not forget Black Rock Depths, a WHOLE GIANT CITY as a dungeon. People didn't expect to clear all of it, they chose which path/bosses/areas to kill or clear depending what they wanted out of it; gear, doing a quest, etc.

[Khalithar]

Then let them find that route and take it if they wish?

They will and that will become the accepted way of doing things and any one that tries to argue against it will probably be shunned. Which leads me to my next point, I'm sure SE will realize that the same thing will happen and as such, why take the time to do such a thing when players are just going to naturally gravitate towards the path of least resistance per usual? Even if you make the shortest path the most difficult one, I have a very strong suspicion that players would just drop until they can find a group capable of doing that shortest path. I appreciate the sentiment, I enjoy long exploration dungeons myself and seeing all the interesting stuff and hidden nooks and crannies, but I feel that the time of dungeons like that is gone now and it goes in the bin with other obsolete MMO mechanics like exp loss and having to carry around actual ammunition.

[Magis]

They will and that will become the accepted way of doing things and any one that tries to argue against it will probably be shunned.

Give people a reason to explore and they will. Yes, if you put a reward down one path and nothing anywhere else, of course people will shun it. That was the great thing about BRD, there were different items depending where you went, and different objectives needed going different paths. At the same time, they weaved in a story and setting that made the place believable and fun to explore. Dungeons in FFXI had different level range mobs in different spots, NMs here and there, and some required different paths to connect to different zones. Though this was more an openworld dungeon which doesn't compare well to instanced ones.

I appreciate the sentiment, I enjoy long exploration dungeons myself and seeing all the interesting stuff and hidden nooks and crannies, but I feel that the time of dungeons like that is gone now and it goes in the bin with other obsolete MMO mechanics like exp loss and having to carry around actual ammunition.

Yeah, seems anything that gave MMO's depth was thrown in that bin (can add elemental systems to that as well), and all that is left is a bare-bones husk with a shiny coat of paint.

[VisRalis]

... this was more an openworld dungeon which doesn't compare well to instanced ones.

Very good point sir.

From that, I also strongly think that Dungeons as part of the open world makes it possible for non-linear design and everything associated with exploration & its risks.

[Morningstar1337]

...Also let's not forget Black Rock Depths, a WHOLE GIANT CITY as a dungeon. People didn't expect to clear all of it, they chose which path/bosses/areas to kill or clear depending what they wanted out of it; gear, doing a quest, etc.

That's it! This games needs something like Black Rock Depths, a place where different paths lead to different rewards...

[Kotemon]

& what he said too --^

There's no point in making dungeons labyrinthine because people will always just find the shortest and fastest route to the end.

What he said.. ^

The fastest route is always a straight line. With people who just want it over with they'll speed run right to the closest or easiest boss> end it> repeat. If that old 1.0 dungeon ended if you fought Antares, that would be all the dungeon you needed.
Take XI, the only reason you had to explore places like Garliage, Sky, Sea, was either to find places to camp mobs for exp, hunt Nm's or look for quest/mission "?". Otherwise you had to randomly run about in groups hand mapping the place until you find that random mob dropping a key to a random chest in a different section of the area to get a dungeon map KI. All while drawing the shortest, straightest route to the various goals. Once Wiki gets the map and route/directions posted people followed that and avoided further exploration. Until I eventually got those maps I got lost so often in sky and sea. I just didn't want to go there past the main story or go further than the outside, and I still don't.

A timed dungeon that big from 1.0 would have a long queue line and have little room for mistakes. Imagine if dps was low, died several times to other bosses and you got to the end with 5 min left on a average 13 min fight; and one person wants to watch the 4 min cutscene. Keep it simple and keep it to point for efficiency. Otherwise a large multy path/segmented raid dungeon sounds good but if your held up by one group who is barely making it through, and decides to randomly loose 1/2 their members because the setup sucks. The other two parties on their own sections are now 'dead end" due to a lack of a third group. If anyone noticed, LoA, WoD, Void keeps all path splits in the same section and are not that far apart and can send 1or 2 from each over to fill the gap..