FFXIV dungeons are a little bit too linear?

[Mieck]

A couple of things that would go a long way to fixing the situation with dungeons;

People say "oh, SE can build multiple routes, but nobody will run them once the most efficient path is worked out."
Fine, don't give them the choice. You can have 3 routes through each zone which is randomly determined at the start. In turn, this can lead to alternative bosses.

Also, randomise enemies. I don't mean pull them from everywhere, but make each enemy area be able to pull from a predetermined set of enemies thematically appropriate for the dungeon. Might make you have to change your play style on the fly - maybe there' are more AoEs to deal with? Maybe this will have consequences with environmental hazzards like in Dzemeal Darkhold? Maybe there are more DOTs to remove?

None of this really gets close to open world, freedom of choice dungeons, and I accept that. But it does at least allow the content to live a little bit longer.

[TheUltimate3]

People say "oh, SE can build multiple routes, but nobody will run them once the most efficient path is worked out."
Fine, don't give them the choice. You can have 3 routes through each zone which is randomly determined at the start. In turn, this can lead to alternative bosses.

Just so we're clear, you're talking about making a single dungeon that has 3 separate routes that are randomly generated and could lead to different bosses?

Why not just make 3 different dungeons then?


As much as it sucks, the best way to probably keep dungeons relevant for longer periods of time would be a Badge of Justice method, with Badge of Justice acquisition levels.

And for those of you that don't know, in the Burning Crusade a full completion of a heroic dungeon would reward at most was 5 Badges. Items themselves cost at most 100 badges. Which meant you were running dungeons, a lot.

Now this badge system is pure garbage for many obvious reasons, but by keeping the amount of Badges the player got very very low, but had the cost of the items very high you pretty much kept the dungeons relevant through out the entire expansion, because damnit you needed to get those badges if you weren't at the end game raids.

[Mieck]

Just so we're clear, you're talking about making a single dungeon that has 3 separate routes that are randomly generated and could lead to different bosses?

Why not just make 3 different dungeons then?

Because it just goes back to the original complaint; that dungeons are too linear. I proposed an alternative, and you said why not just do the thing the OP was complaining about. Not sure I get that...

Anyway, I'm not saying the routes are randomly generated - they will already exist. I am saying the route will be randomly determined.

[TheUltimate3]

Because it just goes back to the original complaint; that dungeons are too linear. I proposed an alternative, and you said why not just do the thing the OP was complaining about. Not sure I get that...

Anyway, I'm not saying the routes are randomly generated - they will already exist. I am saying the route will be randomly determined.

But they would still be linear if the route is randomly determined, just now instead of having the choice of going left or right, the game decided I am going right this run and damned if I wanted to go left.

I just fail to see the difference between the two.

[CrimsonThunder]

Diadem was probably an experiment to test out the viability of a non-linear instance and look how that turned out.

[Sylve]

Now this badge system is pure garbage for many obvious reasons, but by keeping the amount of Badges the player got very very low, but had the cost of the items very high you pretty much kept the dungeons relevant through out the entire expansion, because damnit you needed to get those badges if you weren't at the end game raids.

They stayed relevant not just because you needed Badges of Justice no matter what tier you were at in Raiding, you also couldn't do any Heroic more than once in a day.
They also stayed relevant due to sheer difficulty. Heroic Shadow Labyrinth was incredibly difficult to get through if your CCers weren't on the ball with every pull, even in raid gear.
It helped that the drops themselves were almost a requirement for getting started in Raiding, not to mention the Attunement quests.

But by far, what kept every heroic relevant was the daily lockout. If you wanted to cap your daily Badges, you were required to do each one once instead of *just* the fastest one. Which is why places like Shadow Labs and Shattered Halls were run regularly every day, despite being both long and difficult. But lets not forget that people were perfectly willing to do Heroic Magisters Terrace, despite being among the hardest of Heroics.

I too would like to see more complex dungeons, but I want them to be something I can explore on my own terms.

I would love to see some explorable dungeons that we can do solo but that could also scale up with more players, kind of like Hunts and FATEs.
Hell, Just give us an Exploration Mode on existing Dungeons, make it an Instance through the DF but requiring you physically going to the entrance, really open up the interiors, make the mobs within like the Diadem mobs with scaling difficulties and rewards, hidden treasure chests etc ...

[Tint]

after i have seen tanks in diadem... we NEED those linear dungeons, otherwise the tanks will be helpless. they have no idea what to pull and everyone try to sneak through the monsters and in the end we have a mass pull wich the tank can't handle while 2-3 monsters killing random people because the tank didn't have seen them... o.o/

[Catwho]

XI had some famously complex multi-map open world dungeons. They were a PAIN IN THE BUTT to work with because just to get past certain areas you needed 2-3 more bodies. Garliage Citadel's gates were infamous. Oh, you got the key for your treasure coffer and you need to go camp it solo? Too bad, you need 3 more bodies just to get you behind the gates.

Unfortunately, XIV made the distinction early on that a "dungeon" would be a short instance only specific duty with 3 other players. The beastman areas would have been considered dungeons in XI, but they're open world in XIV, and they're the closest we'll get to an XI style dungeon.

I too would like to see more complex dungeons, but I want them to be something I can explore on my own terms.

[LunnaRavenheart]

I mentioned that like half year ago. Did not bring much attention.

Dungeons in FFXIV are just hallway from point A to point B. There are no real structures to explore, even you visit some of them, you can not explore them. Its illusion/scenery. What you get is always only 1 way and you cannot even visit some extra rooms because 90% is gated behind invisible walls/obstacles.

Yep good dungeons was already mentioned here. From vanilla wow BRD, Sunken Temple(Hakkar), maraudon.

I want some multilayared, fully structured dungeons, with quests inside, traps, optional bosses, optional mechanics, without invisible walls( in BRD for example there was no problem to fall into lava etc. )
Some patrols would be also nice to give more life into them.

I dont understand point of new dungeons in FFXIV with current desingn, there are all same, just with different scenery, we basicaly have 30 same dungeons in game.

[dinnertime]

Even the few 1.0 dungeons weren't so linear.

Complex dungeons would work more as an open-world type of dungeon, imo. Especially since dungeons have time limits, and usually I don't want to spend so much time with random DF groups. I have to agree with the others that the impatient people would just find a faster way to do it though, afterwards it becomes a guide, making everything else trivial.

But if I ever get bad DF groups when the dungeons are so complex though, I might just pull my hair off.