Paradigm shifting for healer needs to be fixed.

[AzureFlare]

I think more about healing and less about DPS..

You're all turning this into WoW, and shame on me for not noticing that sooner.

Elaborate, please.

Can confirm on my crappy, ilvl sub-190 bard doing 1k+ DPS on a dummy, no food no potion solo, Faust-style (3 minutes) is possible. Imagine an ilvl 200, more skilled BRD should be able to pull 1200. Ain't no way I get that as any of the three healers.

[Judge_Xero]

Best I can get as an i200 WHM is around 850 over 3 minutes.

I could only see SCH competing in A2S due to the amount of AOE damage they can do.

But then again look at SMN #'s in that fight.

[DarkmoonVael]

1100 single target for SCH? I don't think so...
BRDs can pull 1200-1300 single target. SCH around 800 if they go full dps.

1000 dps on SCH is only for burst and includes energy drain weaving. Its not sustainable at all, so i wouldnt worry too much about the people saying SCH dps is 1000+

[AzureFlare]

More on topic. I don't mind the current meta, but I do mind it that SCH is the de facto off-healer for this meta and AST get to duke it out for the main healer spot. Not only is it unfair to AST/WHM, but it is unfair to the scholars that want to main heal too. Regardless of metashift or not, there should be ways for all three to fit either slot somehow.

[zuzu-bq]

I think more about healing and less about DPS..

Me too, but once I'm comfortable with mechanics and know how much healing from me my party needs I start thinking about how to deal damage.

[Vlady]

The paradigm isactually not bad. You have a Healer focused on heals and one that can focus on support and damage dealing ispart of that support.

The main problem about all of this is not the content, the problem are the players that shit on cleric stance only SCH while they complain with the WHM/AST when someone die on lack of heals. The both healers must heal, you're a healer after all. If you want to go full dps, bring a dps class instead and put the other healer to solo heal. But when one out of the two can handle all healing alone for a while, why can't the other occupy himself doing anything else like dealing damage, applying buffs, applying debuffs, positioning, using waymarks. People say this game has no support job, but that's not true, all healers are support. Know how your toolkit fits on the fight and try to get the best out of it.

Other thing that I see as a problem is that many groups rely on Healer damage, you also shouldn't. As I said the damage both healers can bring into a fight are part of the support healers can bring to the party. Also their dps is pretty unreliable thanks to accuracy.

I've seen somany scholars complaining about digititis because they can't dps and lot more that keep dealing damage even with the stupid damage down debuff.

Except SE itleast from the interviews and information they released wants each role defined clearly with little wiggle room. They want to go with the holy trinity set up which if even a healer is creeping up on the support type dps then perhaps mana costs and or mechanics that require the healers to spend most of their mana on healing spells should be looked at? The change is an issue to those who enjoy healing and not playing a dps job. Either loosen up the holy trinity set up and allow all jobs access to some hybrid like abilities or set things back to where they are not forcing healers to dps in order to partake in progression.

[CyrilLucifer]

More on topic. I don't mind the current meta, but I do mind it that SCH is the de facto off-healer for this meta and AST get to duke it out for the main healer spot. Not only is it unfair to AST/WHM, but it is unfair to the scholars that want to main heal too. Regardless of metashift or not, there should be ways for all three to fit either slot somehow.

Absolutely agreed. At this point I think a lot of it is simply us having less time with AST, however, and AST was in a pretty bad place when Savage was released. I also believe that all three should be viable for use in a progression slot.

[Calypsx]

Healers doing dps has always been a thing since 2.0. The meta is actually a lot of fun because I get to use all of my shiny abilities.

[TatoRazzino]

My problem is not with the meta, but with how the community deals with the meta. I'll explain: high end professional groups clear things pretty fast for a number of reasons; one of them, is the fact that healers and tanks do as much DPS as possible. Regular players take that piece of information and apply it to their groups, but fail to progress and blame the healers and the tanks. However, we don't see the other aspects of high end groups in regular groups which are (to name a few): 1) they study fights and practice them as much as possible; 2) they focus on learning mechanics to perfection before they take risks to add more DPS; 3) every player uses their toolkit to the fullest; 4) every DPS player is at the top of his or her game. What we actually see is: 1) regular groups practice in a week the same amount of time high end groups practice in a day; 2) every DPS is racing to see who's top on parsers and ignore mechanics, which ends up lowering overall DPS since healers have to do extra party healing and tanks have to stay more time in their tank stance due to the fact that healers are having to cover up DPS mistakes; 3) healers and tanks are blamed for DPS loss, but I know a lot of DPS players that refuse to weave in support/utility skills to help with healing/mitigation; 4) DPS players are 100-200 below the numbers high end players can do. Let's be realistic here and face the fact that most of us (me included) are not as good as the professional players are. I didn't kill A3S on week 3. Some people did, and they did it with i190 pieces in most of the left and right side slots; they focused all their esoterics in their weapons and the only upgrades they got were from the drops found in A1S and A2S (basically, 6 pieces of jewelry and 6 pieces of left side gear, either gloves, belt or boots). Now, everyone should have been able to farm enough esoterics and should have gotten enough drops and pages to raise the average ilvl over 10 levels above what the high end groups had when they cleared it. And we're still seeing people complaining about the fact that AST doesn't do as much DPS as a SCH (which is not that far behind, specially with the extra group DPS the cards bring); people are still saying that WHM needs to meld accuracy to their accessories because the miss % is hurting the group; people complain when SCHs have to heal and can't DPS. This is not only true for healers, tanks are getting their share of crying: PLDs are now being left out of groups and it's considered mandatory for both tanks to have melded accessories to raise their HP and their STR. Well, if you combine the STR that tanks got from esoteric gear and the STR/DEX/INT/MND that the rest of the group got, it's hardly necessary to consider mandatory for tanks to meld crafted accessories. Group DPS should be above the raid requirement to beat the fight with only esoterics and alexander drops. This is not happening, though. What we see are groups breaking up because of DPS numbers when mechanics have not been learned yet; we see crappy DPS players placing blame for low group DPS when they can't, with a lot of esoterics gear and Alexander drops, do as much DPS as high end groups did in week 3; we see healers stressing over something that should not be their problem. This is something SE can't fix; if there's gonna be this level of "witch hunting" every time the developers choose to design challenging fights, there's little the developers can do. After more than 3 months since the release of Alexander - Savage we haven't figured out how to work together as a group, there's nothing they can do.

[AzureFlare]

Well, there are a few things we can do, but most of all we should be able to witch hunt the people that need witch hunting, if it comes that far (instead of them witch hunting us and covering themselves up). Let's not forget that officially, parsers are still a giant taboo (Parser? What parser? I totally put everything in a spreadsheet for everyone in the 1-2 seconds I got between casts, yup..).

I agree with your sentiment though. I'm definitely not in any super strong static or something, and I pug a lot. The stuff people can get away with is insane and there is definitely a sense of carrying going on. Bards not using RoD on A2S or Battle Voice, dragoons jump-locking themselves into telegraphed AoEs (which we all know are scripted!), ninjas not using Suiton -> Trick, tanks not rotating cooldowns properly forcing healers to heal more, summoners not using Tri-Disaster within DWT, list goes on. Equally so there are white mages that forget about Asylum, astrologians that forget CU and Lightspeed, scholars that forget manually using Embrace and manual Rouse'd Embraces are amazing. Even worse if you play an astrologian since your cards should be affecting their DPS immensely during the opener but it doesn't because the DPS is inconsistent to begin with.
Even had situations crazy enough I had to pull 1k DPS on Oppressor pre-0.5 and no DPS bats an eye anyway (as AST, it is possible but requires NIN+BRD and stupid luck too) and we would barely make a 60% split anyway, with everyone decked into an eso weapon and at least ilvl 191 minimum. But what can you do when they don't listen to criticism and won't find the will to improve themselves anyway?

Energy Drain + Fairy is the biggest crap ever in a HPS-low, DPS-heavy meta though.