Why Avoid Parry?

[Kosmos992k]

Going pure defensive and just holding threat really isn't that hard to do. I can do that watching a movie at the same time. I would have no reason to play a tank class because that just sounds extremely lazy and boring.

Then don't play that way, I'm not telling you that you should.

I had to group with several tanks like that already.

As have I, it's extremely irritating, especially when I normally play PLD, and do not play that way.

If a Warrior or Dark Knight plays like that, they usually are less survivable then ones who focus on DPS because they have overall less sustain, and most don't even actively use their defensive moves often.

I play Paladin, all my comments start from that perspective. Of course WAR would be less survivable if they did not do as much DPS sa they can because of their skill set with damage related self heals (among other things). No argument there.

However, trying to deal as much damage as possible while tanking is both fun, active, rewarding, challenging.

Damage above and beyond tanking well and doing your best in the tank role to keep aggro and protect the party is gravy, everyone likes gravy. So far you're not saying anything I have an argument with.

Most full defensive tanks I meet, pretty much do their threat combo and stack high vit and never use defensive moves.

Then they are quite simply bad tanks. defensive moves are as important as keeping hate, otherwise you put undue pressure on the healer, which helps no one.

Some don't even avoid AOEs.

Now that's just plain stupidity on their part. I mean there are times when you have to choose which AoE you will have to eat because either the healers are fully occupied or dodging one put's you in line for the other, so you pop a cool down and choose the lesser of two evils.

Its almost like they are watching Netflix more then playing the game.

I used to have someone in my FC who played tank and healer in lazy mode all the time, I'm painfully aware of the watching Netflix thing.

I mean, sure that probably sounds fun to you but its really not that hard.

I think you're not understanding where I am coming from here. I agree that where possible, and if the player is comfortably able to do it without affecting their core role, players should try to put out additional damage. I agree that tanks (including PLD) are supposed to use their cool downs, buffs, oGCD skills and stay engaged enough to dodge AoEs without spinning the boss like a top and pissing off everyone with positional requirements. I agree that tanks can contribute more damage besides their basic damage done by their hate combo. There's no arguing with any of that that, and I'm not. I am saying that any damage above and beyond what is generates by all of the above is gravy, it's an optional extra, and always appreciated when it happens.

However, when we have Paladins being told to use Sword Oath not Shield Oath when MT, and to stack STR, and focus their rotations on maximizing dps, which in one thread or another I've seen over and over in this forum, more so in the last few months; that's when I'll start arguing. Changing tanks in general into DPS focused clones of each other is not an attractive prospect to me. PLD in particular is simply not that kind of role, and nothing you or anyone else can say will alter that. So if the game changes and follows the current meta and basically makes the things that set Paladin apart irrelevant, I won't continue playing PLD because it's not the role or job that I signed up for. It would be like taking Warrior and nerfing it's DPS and self heal capabilities and then making encounters that depend heavily on physical defense and mitigation.

What bothers me more than anything though is that throughout the numerous topics, players who lean towards the high DPS end of things tend to be dismissive or insulting when it comes to players who are not DPS focused. There are 3 tanks in the game 2 of them (WAR in particular) make a virtue out of higher DPS. Is that not enough? Do we have to railroad Paladin down that line too?

[Ralvenom]

Is that not enough? Do we have to railroad Paladin down that line too?

That's kind of the point, isn't it? We do, because PLD can't perform as well in raids. If the other tanks can defend just as well (remember, block only affects physical attacks) in the current meta, but also do more dps; why bring a PLD? The solution is 2-fold:

1. make the next meta such that there's 1-2 fights where it's not only required for tanks to "turtle" BUT is also fun;
   This would force tanks to bring a Fending set for those fights.
2. bring MT PLD dps up slightly, as the changes in 3.1 were a good step but not enough.
   Every tank should feel like they can perform at the same level as every other tank, which is still not the current case.

[Kosmos992k]

That's kind of the point, isn't it? We do, because PLD can't perform as well in raids. If the other tanks can defend just as well (remember, block only affects physical attacks) in the current meta, but also do more dps; why bring a PLD? The solution is 2-fold:

1. make the next meta such that there's 1-2 fights where it's not only required for tanks to "turtle" BUT is also fun;
   This would force tanks to bring a Fending set for those fights.
2. bring MT PLD dps up slightly, as the changes in 3.1 were a good step but not enough.
   Every tank should feel like they can perform at the same level as every other tank, which is still not the current case.

I don't see that as a soluntion, it's butter knife to spread things around and make them the same. By equalizing the tanks, you are simply homogenizing them. The focus on damage, damage, damage makes the game, and tanking in particular quite one-dimensional. Sure SE could tailor encounters to each tank, but that would be counter productive because each time they do it, the other tanks will fell left out while the third one takes advantage of their chance to shine.

I think they need to add more dimension to encounters and tanking in general. Otherwise why have PLD at lall?

[Kacho_Nacho]

*snip* What bothers me more than anything though is that throughout the numerous topics, players who lean towards the high DPS end of things tend to be dismissive or insulting when it comes to players who are not DPS focused. There are 3 tanks in the game 2 of them (WAR in particular) make a virtue out of higher DPS. Is that not enough? Do we have to railroad Paladin down that line too?

Thank you!