Why Avoid Parry?

[Jpec07]

I will say it again (and I'll edit the original post to include this):

Killing a mob faster is only viable as mitigation if the damage prevented is greater than the damage that would have been prevented by instead passively mitigating it. Killing a mob faster to save .3% damage by stacking Crit is not viable as mitigation if a full Parry build would have saved you .5% incoming damage.

I'll need to look at some parses later to determine how much damage a tank can save by killing a mob faster versus wearing full Fending, but I have a very hard time believing that tank DPS can have such an effect on the rate at which mobs and bosses die as to make Crit, Skill Speed, or Det more worthwhile than Parry for mitigation.

As a note, I'm not denying that Alexander (+Savage) 1-4, and most of the bosses from 50-59 and Fractal Continuum and Neverreap are kind of backwards for this mentality. But in my mind (which I guess I'm trying to clear up about this), I'd tend to think stacking Parry would be a much better idea for trash pulls than DPS stats, especially large ones, where you're facing a lot of physical auto-attacks.

"But cooldowns!" Do provide the majority of mitigation. Yes. But that applies to literally every other stat on gear as it contributes to tank survivability. Parry from gear applies on top of that in most cases, and so still provides extra mitigation.

Again, not trying to argue this. I just want to understand it. I apologize if I'm getting aggravating about it, I just really don't get it.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I will say it again (and I'll edit the original post to include this):

Killing a mob faster is only viable as mitigation if the damage prevented is greater than the damage that would have been prevented by instead passively mitigating it. Killing a mob faster to save .3% damage by stacking Crit is not viable as mitigation if a full Parry build would have saved you .5% incoming damage.

I'll need to look at some parses later to determine how much damage a tank can save by killing a mob faster versus wearing full Fending, but I have a very hard time believing that tank DPS can have such an effect on the rate at which mobs and bosses die as to make Crit, Skill Speed, or Det more worthwhile than Parry for mitigation.

As a note, I'm not denying that Alexander (+Savage) 1-4, and most of the bosses from 50-59 and Fractal Continuum and Neverreap are kind of backwards for this mentality. But in my mind (which I guess I'm trying to clear up about this), I'd tend to think stacking Parry would be a much better idea for trash pulls than DPS stats, especially large ones, where you're facing a lot of physical auto-attacks.

"But cooldowns!" Do provide the majority of mitigation. Yes. But that applies to literally every other stat on gear as it contributes to tank survivability. Parry from gear applies on top of that in most cases, and so still provides extra mitigation.

Again, not trying to argue this. I just want to understand it. I apologize if I'm getting aggravating about it, I just really don't get it.

Parry would be better on trash pulls? No.

DPS and Critical Stacking is a lot better, especially on a Warrior:

Pull a bunch of trash, stack up all of your damage buffs and pop vengeance: You heal for the damage you do and are constantly overpowering which is giving you massive sustain because your healing for how much damage you do. A critical hit will make you heal for even more.

Damage multiplies with stats, unlike Parry, which is always the same value.

Honestly, if they removed Parry from the game and replaced it with something like: Max Health? Then I would consider it a very valuable stat. However, as it is.. No.

[Freyyy]

snip

But we're saying again and again that the passive mitigation granted by parry is :
- Unreliable, while more damage is always reliable
- Only physical, while killing things faster prevents all types of damage
- So low that it's not even noticeable, while DPS secondaries are a very noticeable increase in DPS

What is missing here for you to understand ? You can even add that more DPS secondaries = more self-healing via lifesteal = mitigation as well !

Parry IS shit as it is right now. Bottom line.

You seem to also think that doing more damage only grants a group the ability to kill the boss 2-3sec faster. It's not only that. It also permits to push phases earlier and sometimes it makes you able to skip completely some mechanics. It can literally cheese the fight. And tank DPS helps a LOT with that. Much more than what you seem to think.

[Dante_V]

I will say it again (and I'll edit the original post to include this):

Killing a mob faster is only viable as mitigation if the damage prevented is greater than the damage that would have been prevented by instead passively mitigating it. Killing a mob faster to save .3% damage by stacking Crit is not viable as mitigation if a full Parry build would have saved you .5% incoming damage.

I'll need to look at some parses later to determine how much damage a tank can save by killing a mob faster versus wearing full Fending, but I have a very hard time believing that tank DPS can have such an effect on the rate at which mobs and bosses die as to make Crit, Skill Speed, or Det more worthwhile than Parry for mitigation.

In regards to dps/mitigation synergy it isn't only just "killing the mob faster" that makes dps stats more viable, while that does help you also need to consider that 2 of the tanks are built in a manner that have dps/mitigation synergy. Meaning they can turn outgoing damage into HP recovery, sometimes at very substantial rates. In regards to secondaries specifically, at any given ilvl you will have static amount of secondary points available. This is known in the community as the "stat budget" of an item. Within that budget there are relative caps for each secondary in regards to SE's decision and the "weight" of the stat. So stacking parry means sacrificing another stat. Due to the nature of dps and mitigation not being mutually exclusive in practice and design of the tank classes, but only in actual stat budgeting, taking damage stats not only allows you to kill the enemy faster but also achieve greater utilization of the abilities that synergize with dps stats.

Now there are ways they could fix parry as a stat to alter the balance here, but in regards to it's very low stacking rate and limited utilization, along with the healing and tank meta it becomes more advantageous to take another stat if possible in it's place. This doesn't mean parry is useless per se, just that there are other stats available that will achieve greater mitigation in it place.

Also I don't think your question or inquiry is unreasonable at all. SE doesn't make these things very obvious and in some cases makes very questionable decision in regards to stats specifically involving tanks. If you would like to see some hard scientific data on the issue I would check out the FFXIV reddit forums and do a search on parry stats or stat weights for tanks. There is some pretty comprehensive research on the issue that has been done by the raiding community if you are interested in that type of thing.

[Risvertasashi]

If you would like to see some hard scientific data on the issue I would check out the FFXIV reddit forums and do a search on parry stats or stat weights for tanks. There is some pretty comprehensive research on the issue that has been done by the raiding community if you are interested in that type of thing.

Another good place to check for data like this can be the bluegartr forums. Just be aware they're not the most welcoming/patient of folks.