PLD Raise while in combat please!

[KingOfAbyss]

That wouldn't balance out jack. All it would do give PLD a little more raid utility that's niche at best and borderline useless at worst. With no Swiftcast available, you have to animation lock yourself for over 8 seconds to cast Raise. If both healers are down, 8 seconds is a freakin eternity for the boss to chew up the MT, spit him out, and start hunting for DPS.

Since I pretty much always MT, I was looking from this point of view, to be used under scarce circumstances, like popping the Hallowed Ground Skill, then no matter how long your raise, you wouldn't be chewed up.. and I can see myself raising an Healer, and him to use the LB3 to save the long fight..

^ an example only ^o^

If they can give us Swiftcast then by all means! hehehe

[Fevelle]

You sound mad. Stop being mad. While my statement was over the top, I do agree that adding Holy to PLD would make sense, I would disagree that adding battle raise to a PLD makes sense. As far as I can find, but I haven't looked everywhere, the only FF game that gives PLD raise is FFXI. Cecil doesn't have it. None of the tactics games have it. While having a light healing ability and holy make sense, raise still does not.

I'm not mad, just displeased with the way FFXIV is turning to be. Holy is an ability exclusive to WHMs, there's no sense in adding it to Paladin. Given that FFIV had Raise for Cecil on later editions, yes, it would make sense. Paladins/Knights were able to even AoE heal with Heal/Cura in most games, so even Medica would make sense. What doesn't make sense is adding more combos and dots just like every other DPS character, and that's what we have today, outside of Clemency and Divine Veil.

[KingOfAbyss]

PLD being able to Raise in combat would be of niche use at the very best. More half-assed raid utility isn't balance.

Well, since it won't balance it out, SE can surely give it to us!

RPers and those niche occasion would be nice to see ^^

[KingOfAbyss]

You already have Raise cross classed from CNJ, you may or may not have included it in the skills you could put in available slots. However, at the moment there is no point because we can't use it in battle, even though it's a cross class skill. In fact there really isn't any point to cross classing the skill without being able to use it in battle <- That is the point of my thread, sigh. And check me on Lodestone, I've got all my Cross-Class Skills, so I know them since it takes almost as much time to switch the skill into your hotbar and wait for the cooldown before using it as it does to simply switch to CNJ or WHM and do it that way. <- err what? That has nothing to do with my suggestion.

There's discussion of this on the Tank forum. (at least someone who has taste! ^^)

I understand the points about end-game/raid content. But in general run of the mill stuff and in terms of QoL, it matters because we have been given it as a cross class skill, but it's quite literally unusable in any meaningful way because it can't be used in battle. <- EXACTLY. I mean, if you're going to give Raise as a cross class, why not make it battle usable? Summoners have the skill from Arcanist that allows them to raise in battle. <- YUP.

Actually if CNJ didn't need a trait to allow raising in battle, there would be no issue. I've no idea why CNJ needs to have that trait in the first place, it seems a needless restriction at the best.

Well, yeah, seems they are looking to revamp this skill system, we might be in for a shock! Get ready for 4.0, the reborn of a reborn game!

*actually I wouldn't mind testing a different skill systems, as long as they keep up with this nice game ^^

[KingOfAbyss]

The difference between Paladin having a raise in battle and a summoner having raise is that a Paladin can get hit by a truck and live; a summoner cannot (No defensive CDs even). Most classes share a bum skill. (RUIN) White mages get 3 good cross class and share very good cross class. Stoneskin (maybe protect over mercy sometimes) + MRD cross is all PLD needs. If Paladin does need more utility they shouldn't be looking at cross class to improve themselves.

Then tell me why we needed CNJ to unlock our job.

We don't use Cure at all (even before Clemency), Stoneskin now seems irrelevant to the point of leaving it to healers. Protect? Same - Healers.

We mostly use all from MRD.

This is an ability we have and can use, but it's useless. So I want to make a use of it.

If you don't want to use it, up to you.

I don't need that to 'perform' the way you are typing.

It's a 'plus' that would be nice to get.

[SonKevin]

I'm not mad, just displeased with the way FFXIV is turning to be. Holy is an ability exclusive to WHMs, there's no sense in adding it to Paladin. Given that FFIV had Raise for Cecil on later editions, yes, it would make sense. Paladins/Knights were able to even AoE heal with Heal/Cura in most games, so even Medica would make sense. What doesn't make sense is adding more combos and dots just like every other DPS character, and that's what we have today, outside of Clemency and Divine Veil.

You know that Holy can be learned by PLDs in FFXI, right? PLDs also have no AoE heal in FFXI. Saint Cross from tactics advance also could be considered Holy as it's a light based AOE damage spell. Wish from Holy Knight takes HP from your character to heal other allies, but outside games without aga spells, I don't believe any PLD had a AOE heal.

[KingOfAbyss]

Think beyond 8-man raids and end-game. In light party content if the healer dies, it's generally gonna be a wipe. If PLD could raise in battle, they more than likely have enough aggro lead on the DPS to raise the healer without losing aggro. It would be very useful there. (AMEN)

One thing I am finding in this discussion in particular is that many players wear blinkers that prevent them seeing anything but end-game scenarios. <- as Fevelle replied, the DEVs as well ^^



That's not really very relevant to the discussion, the Summoner is hardly going to steal hate while raising someone, so short of a random AoE they're gonna be fine, especially is they swiftcast it.

As I said earlier in another post. The raise cross class skill is really unusable in it's current state, it literally detracts from the PLD skills if you put it on your hotbar, becoming an entirely wasted slot. Since PLD is based on the combination of GLD and CNJ, is it really unreasonable to expect we would at least be able to use our CNJ skills? <- now we are talking the same language ^^



Oh good grief I hope not. It's one of the few ways in which we get any ability to shape our character and influence anything about how they play. If you remove cross class skills, you rail everyone into exactly the same skills and abilities, and with the vertical gearing, each player in a job would basically be a clone of every other player in the same job. How boring would that be? On the contrary, expand the cross skills. Try this, take your soul stone off, requip as a Gladiator and look at the selection of juicy skills you have to play with. Rather than removing cross class skills, though ought to expand them to allow us more freedom with our skill build.



No it wouldn't. It's on a long cast time and uses a lot of MP, how would it be more powerful or unbalancing than SMN being able to Resurrect? Not to mention that while the PLD is casting it, they are taking damage and not putting out any DPS, so in an end-game scenario with the dps-checks there, I can't believe any raid leader would ask for a PLD over another tank for their ability to battle raise.

Nice post in here Kosmos ^^

[Fevelle]

You know that Holy can be learned by PLDs in FFXI, right? PLDs also have no AoE heal in FFXI. Saint Cross from tactics advance also could be considered Holy as it's a light based AOE damage spell. Wish from Holy Knight takes HP from your character to heal other allies, but outside games without aga spells, I don't believe any PLD had a AOE heal.

Yes, because taking into account an MMORPG and Tactics is really something you should do when looking at the roots of a franchise. If we're going about that, Paladins should have acess to sword skills like Holy Explosion and Judgement Blade from FFT. The "aga" spells by the way, are much more present in the franchise than skills like Holy Cross and Wish (and I find it quite lame that FFXIV spells are not named like that).

[KingOfAbyss]

Hallow + Raise + Cover + LB3 Healer.

What's wrong in that scenario?

I saw exactly that. Or the healer use bene on himself while covered.

yeah the DEVs would have to work harder instead of putting more HP to Bosses, but it would feel more engaging.

The Balance thing, oftentimes they screw for a whole patch, and more (WAR comes to my mind) before they see it as unbalanced.

As I was saying, to give this Skill a real utility, even if not useful everywhere, I'd be happy with that, more than some ugly glamours that they come up with more often than not >.<

[KingOfAbyss]

Yup, STRATEGY. This is exactly what this game lacks.

/NODS

*10 character