PLD Raise while in combat please!

[Malicewolf]

That wouldn't balance out jack. All it would do give PLD a little more raid utility that's niche at best and borderline useless at worst. With no Swiftcast available, you have to animation lock yourself for over 8 seconds to cast Raise. If both healers are down, 8 seconds is a freakin eternity for the boss to chew up the MT, spit him out, and start hunting for DPS.

Every tank should have a last ditch, immune to death saving CD. This scenario kinda screams "use me" for that. Even if the MT dies, the shortest version of this is holmgang, which still lasts for 6 seconds for a WAR. Raise is 8. If your MT can't give you 2 extra seconds and use Holmgang to stall for the other 6, then you have another problem. Living dead is 10 seconds long, just like HG. This idea is meant to be last ditch effort, or simply to alleviate a healer from using their mana on it if the run is still going smoothly and 1 DPS falls.

[Ashkendor]

Every tank should have a last ditch, immune to death saving CD. This scenario kinda screams "use me" for that. Even if the MT dies, the shortest version of this is holmgang, which still lasts for 6 seconds for a WAR. Raise is 8. If your MT can't give you 2 extra seconds and use Holmgang to stall for the other 6, then you have another problem. Living dead is 10 seconds long, just like HG. This idea is meant to be last ditch effort, or simply to alleviate a healer from using their mana on it if the run is still going smoothly and 1 DPS falls.

I'm talking from the standpoint of endgame content here, where your last ditch cooldowns are often included in your cooldown rotation by necessity and thus aren't available to use like that. If both healers are down and you manage to get one raised, great. One healer back on their feet with no mana probably isn't going to save the run because at that point your MT is very likely to be mostly dead (if not already completely dead), and if you're very unlucky the raid's also taken aoe damage. Not to mention, your OT animation locking themselves and losing 4 GCD's worth of DPS to save one healer a single Raise cast's worth of mana is a bad idea.

The whole reason Raise is a great raid utility for SMN is specifically because they are a DoT class and they have Swiftcast.

PLD being able to Raise in combat would be of niche use at the very best. More half-assed raid utility isn't balance.

[Catwho]

The whole reason Raise is a great raid utility for SMN is specifically because they are a DoT class and they have Swiftcast.

Let me say that as a SMN, unless you've EXPLICITLY asked me to save Swiftcast for Raise, it's not going to be up on demand.

Just tossing that out there. I use up Swiftcast for Shadow Flare unless I've been specifically asked to keep it on reserve in a raid.

[KingOfAbyss]

PLD being able to Raise in combat would be of niche use at the very best. More half-assed raid utility isn't balance.

Well, since it won't balance it out, SE can surely give it to us!

RPers and those niche occasion would be nice to see ^^

[Ashkendor]

Yup, STRATEGY. This is exactly what this game lacks.

It always kinda weirds me out when I see this kind of sentiment from people that say they don't do endgame. o.O

I mean, if you don't do the hardest content in the game, of course it's going to seem light on strategy.

We have FOUR of them, all of them from CNJ and all of them to some degree or another useless or unusable. We're the only non caster to cross with CNJ, I already know the arguments about it being a hold over or legacy thing...yada...yada... The point is it's there, it's half of our cross class skills, and they should be useful in some way.

If you honestly think Stoneskin is useless, you're doing PLD wrong. Oops sorry, there goes my endgame point of view again.

Also fully agree with this. You can Stoneskin yourself before almost every major Tankbuster in the game without interuption. There are also a lot of lengthy transition phases in Raids / Trials that let's you Stoneskin multiple people with weakness before a big hit. I re-protect static members after Raise as it saves the healers MP. Honestly there's no reason for a Paladin to NOT be doing this. It's practically a part of the job.

I remember spam-casting Stoneskin on Earthshaker targets in T13. Glorious. xD

I also remember how much fun it was once I figured out that if I Stoneskinned myself I could just Leeroy straight into Bahamut for DB.

Well, since it won't balance it out, SE can surely give it to us!

RPers and those niche occasion would be nice to see ^^

They can put it in or not put it in and it won't matter to me either way. I don't care so much about that. I was making an argument against someone that was saying it would help balance Paladin with the other two tanks. Frankly, it wouldn't affect a darn thing as far as evening Paladin up in raid effectiveness with Warrior and Dark Knight. It'd be just another niche use skill that you almost never use.

[Kosmos992k]

If you honestly think Stoneskin is useless, you're doing PLD wrong. Oops sorry, there goes my endgame point of view again.

Actually I use it regularly, I don't consider it to be completely useless, however if you've spent any time on the tank forum (which I am sure you have) then you will have seen many posters declaring it a waste of time and MP to cast StoneSkin. I do cast StoneSkin, on myself and on others while tanking. I should probably go back and change my comment to say thee, not four, along with an asterisk pointing out that many apparently consider StoneSkin a pointless waste of time and MP, though I personally do not.

Alternately I can leave this note here.




Since Cure is so weak that the high level boss auto attacks overwhelm it, it's a patent waste of MP, Protect is cast by Healers and lasts 30 minutes so outside solo use it's not really worth using. Raise is, as I pointed out, unusable in any meaningful way, it even being quicker to switch to WHM out of combat to perform the raise, rather than messing around with cross skill settings and waiting for the cool down. That leaves Stoneskin as the only skill that is useful in the 4 we're talking about, and some strongly question that too.

[Kaiser-Ace]

snip

I keep Stoneskin on my first cross skill slot just incase the healer doesn't have it crossed or we're in a dungeon where it's locked by the level sync.I personally find it to be worth the skill slot (Since PLD's Raise is 100% worthless, Protect is usually a moot point, and cure is less useful than a potion). There's really not a lot of cross skills that are worth a slot. Like I'm never, not even once, going tp cross Skull Sunder on Dragoon so it's not even considered. But Pugilist's Second Wind is certainly valuable. It just so happens that more than half of PLD's cross skills are unusable or borderline useless. Stoneskin is not one of those how ever.