Current state of MCH?

[Greedalox]

DRG's aren't interchangable.

Neither is BLM+SMN, no more than BRD+MCH is anyway.

DRG is the only job that has a mandatory slot, people never seem to realise this for some reason though.

Alas we're left with Brd/Mch - Smn/Blm - Drg and (Nin,Mnk and Smn/Blm) fighting for the spot. Every class is jealous of Drg DPS + utility so that's more of an isolated problem that may or may not need to be tuned. However I hardly think that buffing Brd/Mch damage so that you can cut out Nin and Mnk for the 4th slot would be a nice thing to do, considering they already wrestle with Brd comps who want the second caster.

It'd be like the days of early coil where everyone wanted multiple Bards because their damage was so overtuned for what else they brought to the table.

[Archaell]

Alas we're left with Brd/Mch - Smn/Blm - Drg and (Nin,Mnk and Smn/Blm) fighting for the spot. Every class is jealous of Drg DPS + utility so that's more of an isolated problem that may or may not need to be tuned. However I hardly think that buffing Brd/Mch damage so that you can cut out Nin and Mnk for the 4th slot would be a nice thing to do, considering they already wrestle with Brd comps who want the second caster.

It'd be like the days of early coil where everyone wanted multiple Bards because their damage was so overtuned for what else they brought to the table.

Of course buffing their dps to MNK and NIN level would be a bad idea, but I don't think that if the penalty was halved to make BRD+MCH groups more viable, it would be evil in any way.

Personally as MCH I would love to be able to play with my friends who main BRD, instead of fighting with them for a spot.

[Underdog2204]

Alas we're left with Brd/Mch - Smn/Blm - Drg and (Nin,Mnk and Smn/Blm) fighting for the spot. Every class is jealous of Drg DPS + utility so that's more of an isolated problem that may or may not need to be tuned. However I hardly think that buffing Brd/Mch damage so that you can cut out Nin and Mnk for the 4th slot would be a nice thing to do, considering they already wrestle with Brd comps who want the second caster.

It'd be like the days of early coil where everyone wanted multiple Bards because their damage was so overtuned for what else they brought to the table.

BRD is not the only job now though...

Having both jobs be completely incompatible with each other is terrible design imo, at least there is an option to take a BLM and SMN if a group so chooses.

SE has backed themselves into a corner on this I think.

[Greedalox]

BRD is not the only job now though...

Having both jobs be completely incompatible with each other is terrible design imo, at least there is an option to take a BLM and SMN if a group so chooses.

SE has backed themselves into a corner on this I think.

I don't think many games have a design philosophy that all designated supports would make a great team. On that factor, I'm not against the incompatability of MCH/BRD on the same team and I don't feel that them being weak together is a design flaw or a backed into a corner move, it would be a different story if they just made us straight up DPS and got rid of the support tag.

[Underdog2204]

I don't think many games have a design philosophy that all designated supports would make a great team. On that factor, I'm not against the incompatability of MCH/BRD on the same team and I don't feel that them being weak together is a design flaw or a backed into a corner move, it would be a different story if they just made us straight up DPS and got rid of the support tag.

Support is a very loose term for this game, it's just a resource battery. DPS battery is more appropriate ^^

Now if we were talking about actual support that involves buffing, debuffing, CCing etc (would be awesome) then I would agree with you but we arn't they just have a couple of buttons to press now and again. 99% of the time they are dps doing dps rotations.

It is just poor design imo.

[Greedalox]

Support is a very loose term for this game, it's just a resource battery. DPS battery is more appropriate ^^

Now if we were talking about actual support that involves buffing, debuffing, CCing etc (would be awesome) then I would agree with you but we arn't they just have a couple of buttons they press now and again.

It is just poor design imo.

I dunno, I feel that with the spread of 2/2/4 for raid content that it's not terrible to split the 4 into a variant, namely support. Battery or not, they they are the only ones who possess the capability and are brought for it. I don't see the problem with 2 tanks, 2 healers, 3 dps and a "battery" over 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 dps.

[Underdog2204]

I dunno, I feel that with the spread of 2/2/4 for raid content that it's not terrible to split the 4 into a variant, namely support. Battery or not, they they are the only ones who possess the capability and are brought for it. I don't see the problem with 2 tanks, 2 healers, 3 dps and a "battery" over 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 dps.

Good point.

The issue comes when it seems that any new physical ranged jobs are now going to have to be shoehorned into this battery role, and none of them are going to work with each other.

Can you think of one reason MCH needed to have regen on the turret? Or why BRD needed their regen songs? I sure can't. Healers have tools for mp management, why was a class needed to give them mp instead of their own skills? I just cannot get my head around the choices they made.

[Greedalox]

Good point.

The issue comes when it seems that any new physical ranged jobs are now going to have to be shoehorned into this battery role, and none of them are going to work with each other.

Can you think of one reason MCH needed to have regen on the turret? I sure can't.

I would assume that MCH were given turret regens for the sake of a more or less "guaranteed" role having more than 1 job to fill it. Funnily enough the classes are still incredibly similar, but I see where they were coming from when making a second battery.

[RiceisNice]

Can you think of one reason MCH needed to have regen on the turret? Or why BRD needed their regen songs? I sure can't. Healers have tools for mp management, why was a class needed to give them mp instead of their own skills? I just cannot get my head around the choices they made.

If MCH was going to compete with BRD for a spot, they'd need to be able to fill in the same niche and become interchangable. They already shot themselves in the leg back in 2.0 when they made BRD the only job capable of giving other players tp/mp regen, whihc may or may not be necessary for the content at hand. The other was not make any jobs have it, and that BRD/MCH is interchangable with both casters in regards of a ranged dps.

For the record, I'm fine with them being the "support dps" niche or whatever they want to call it. They need to homogenize their utility and purpose if they're gonna compete with roles (hence both of them having regen). I'm not fine with them homogenizing their gameplay though, which is mostly the case in regards to BRd/MCH's general gameplay outside of cooldowns.