Thread: Patch 3.1 and the Problems with a Two Tier Model of Content

Originally Posted by SerCypher

The whole idea of -hard- content seems to have gone out the wayside in this expansion. There is only casual and extreme, and there is nothing to bridge the gap and provide a sense of progression for the average player. That's why you have anger about new players trying Savage, or Ex primals. These people really aren't skilled enough for those fights, but they want something more challenging then facerolling dungeons, and there is nowhere to learn now.

I'm guessing you've never landed into Alex NM on DF with them? That and void ark provide challenge for that sort of player.

I view casual content as any content that a group of strangers with no experience can be Duty findered into and complete with a good chance of success.

It's content that is forgettable, and that doesn't require any serious effort or growth to complete. This is now the only type of content in the game besides the very overtuned savage content.

Originally Posted by raela

I'm guessing you've never landed into Alex NM on DF with them? That and void ark provide challenge for that sort of player.

I have never seen either of those fights run out the timer with wipes. Which is fine! I'm not saying they should be harder.

I am saying they don't provide a challenge, and there should be fights that do besides the overtuned savage fights.

I believe the problem is not that they are making the "wrong content" but that no matter what is made, the player-base or aspects of it will have wanted something different that is tailored specifically to what they think they want, which is often not even what they actually want.

Basically Group A of the players want Content Type A, Group C wants Content Type C.
If SE makes Content A, Group C is pissed.
SE makes Content C, Group A is pissed.
SE, hoping to appease both groups makes Content B because it is somewhere between Content A and Content C and both Groups A and C are pissed.
The decision that SE seems to be trying to go for is to make some A, some B and some C. Unfortunately, that leaves them in the situation we have now where the player-base feels there is not enough content tailored to them.

No matter what is done or made some portion of the player-base will be pissed because they selfishly desire (its part of human nature) more of what they want and other people and their desires are not as important and should not warrant consideration.

Originally Posted by SerCypher

I have never seen either of those fights run out the timer with wipes. Which is fine! I'm not saying they should be harder.

I am saying they don't provide a challenge, and there should be fights that do besides the overtuned savage fights.

I've seen them vote abandon before that due to enrage wipes. I've even quit out of A1 because it was 100% clear we were not going to clear and the vote abandon failed.

Ex primals are a step below savage, and alex is below those but above normal.. I don't get what difficultly level you're imagining. :/ i did bismark ex on PF and the main challenge there seemed to be getting dps that knew their rotations.. Not so much the mechanics of the fight.

Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

You can't have both of those at once in the same kind of content:

1) Something you can DF and expect to win.

2) Something that provides a challenge harder than Alex NM or Void Ark.

At best you could have 3) Content hard enough to require a newbie/casual static (ie 2 hours a week tops), which can have 1-2 members PFed. Which is how Coil was. Of course those statics probably didn't clear T5/9/13 before it had echo, but they probably downed the next best thing (ie T4 long before 2.2).

Agreed.

Which is why I would prefer the system in 2.0, where you were prepared for coil by having to get your relic and do hardmode primals. It all felt like a road you could progress on, not a brick wall.

Originally Posted by SerCypher

Agreed.

Which is why I would prefer the system in 2.0, where you were prepared for coil by having to get your relic and do hardmode primals. It all felt like a road you could progress on, not a brick wall.

Titan HM was among my favorite of mid-core battles. Tackling him in Darklight gear, he stood as a real challenge between many players and their relic. Clearing the heart phase was a rush. Learning his final phase as a healer was pulse pounding, as the Tumults began stacking up and missed dodges began to take their toll, until finally, your group holds it together and he goes down. Titan was far from the hardest battle in 2.0, but he laid the smack down on those who came unprepared (myself included!). He was a great starting point for leaping into harder content, and had an immensely compelling reward in the shape of the relic weapon. I would love some battles that really nail that level of tuning again.