How a Meridianum and Praetoreum run should be!

[NovaLevossida]

Wrong. SE settled the debate by giving everyone a bonus when people have to *gasp* let someone else play and enjoy the game. People in these threads always say the same wrong things about how they're entitled to speed run over new people's fun AND get the new player bonus at the same time. Nope. Earn the bonus by waiting and being patient or don't do the roulette since it's too hard to understand the concept of being compensated for your time.

To OP, glad you held out for the new player experience and grats on finding some gamers who know how to have fun gaming.

You say that as if people just don't leave them behind and do the duty without them. For that viewpoint to be "wrong," there sure is a lot of statistical data that says otherwise. To be honest, you sound entitled and wish to hold 7 people ransom because their goals and objectives don't mesh with your own. I know which of the 8 in the party is the selfish one for sure.

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

About a year ago my FC was helping one of our new members and her WHM friend through Prae. We weren't sure how many people were going. I was on BLM when my FC leader (PLD) told me to switch to WAR so we could have all the important jobs covered in the FC. That way impatient DPS were forced to wait.

[Violyre]

On a side-note, I do believe that SE should split up these things. There are still a lot of minor CS that could be used to begin, and stick longer cutscenes at the ends. It would kill some immersion, yes (offhand thinking about the transitions at Nero > Gaius > Ultima Weapon x2 > Lahabrea) but there's no reason they couldn't show a cutscene as you leave, and then put you in a little room like they did for Ifrit and Garuda for setting purposes and put everything up until the transition to fight before it

Example meaning, after you beat Nero, you get his cutscene when you leave. It deposits you into a single room modeled after that room. You click the elevator outside of the instance, and maybe make the Gaius cutscene cut before he makes you that offer, and show that part at the start of the fight.

And for the love of the Twelve, make it four person.

[szalkerous]

The only players who consider it bad design are WoW player, as the game has next to no cs.

...

Those who play FF11 or similar, are used to CS in dungeons, the CS take really no time to sit through, and are part of the dungeon. When you que up, you agree to do the dungeon.

And it is a bit annoying to speak on the behalf of others, speak only for yourself.

First off, I can tell you're one of the white knights that force the group to stop and wait for people to watch these in full... so everything I say will be ignored, because you want to impose communism on everyone else running the same dungeon... but I have nothing better to do during maintenance, so here goes:

The last 3 or 4 MMO's I've played, being Rift, GW2, Aion, DDO.... none of those contained massive cutscenes throughout the dungeons that doubled the run time. So I have no idea why you think that only WOW players find this completely unnecessary.

(continued)

[Iz_Lemon]

On a side-note, I do believe that SE should split up these things. There are still a lot of minor CS that could be used to begin, and stick longer cutscenes at the ends. It would kill some immersion, yes (offhand thinking about the transitions at Nero > Gaius > Ultima Weapon x2 > Lahabrea) but there's no reason they couldn't show a cutscene as you leave, and then put you in a little room like they did for Ifrit and Garuda for setting purposes and put everything up until the transition to fight before it

snip

And for the love of the Twelve, make it four person.

For what it's worth, everything you've said here is exactly what they've done for future content to prevent this from happening. It was a horrendously bad design decision in this sort of game, and this has been recognised by square enix.

In regards to your reply to my previous post, firstly, at any gear levels they would need a healer, they can't survive without one. Gear item levels don't trivialise boss encounters THAT much.

But yeah... I'm not saying people in your party were't rude to you either. It sounds like they were. Either side demanding things be done a certain way rather than having a civilised discussion is not on. For the record, the possibility of having to watch the cutscenes is why I don't set foot in main scenario roulette, and I think if you do, you should at the bare minimum be prepared to have a rational discussion about it. It's been so long since these players got to level 50 they forget that for most players this will be their very first exposure to the level 50 content.

[Violyre]

In regards to your reply to my previous post, firstly, at any gear levels they would need a healer, they can't survive without one. Gear item levels don't trivialise boss encounters THAT much.

I noted they hadn't picked up an incedinary yet, to note that we finished the first boss and they were on trash. I'd be a lot more sympathetic to them if they were actually at a boss.

And it kind of does trivialize boss fights. I've seen a SCH pre-Heavensward almost kill Nero solo. Sure, they had a personal healer, but they didn't have the same damage output as a group or the defense of a tank.

You say that as if people just don't leave them behind and do the duty without them. For that viewpoint to be "wrong," there sure is a lot of statistical data that says otherwise. To be honest, you sound entitled and wish to hold 7 people ransom because their goals and objectives don't mesh with your own. I know which of the 8 in the party is the selfish one for sure.

Here's a question though. To the best of my knowledge, four people spoke in total in my group. Myself, two players against me, and someone else that said to let me have the experience. If we add the other cutscene watcher, that's three people for watching, two against it, and three with no commentary. Who is the selfish one?

You may say "they kicked you with majority vote" to counteract my attempt to call the people telling me to skip were selfish. I retort with "how many times do people just click yes on any window that pops up?" I won't deny your possibility outright, but will only say some people don't even check who's being kicked.

Also, I don't feel I held them hostage. I told them to go ahead and kill while I watched.

[NovaLevossida]

Here's a question though. To the best of my knowledge, four people spoke in total in my group. Myself, two players against me, and someone else that said to let me have the experience. If we add the other cutscene watcher, that's three people for watching, two against it, and three with no commentary. Who is the selfish one?

You may say "they kicked you with majority vote" to counteract my attempt to call the people telling me to skip were selfish. I retort with "how many times do people just click yes on any window that pops up?" I won't deny your possibility outright, but will only say some people don't even check who's being kicked.

Also, I don't feel I held them hostage. I told them to go ahead and kill while I watched.

I'm of the opinion that group members should be okay doing what the majority of the group wants in such a situation. I have nothing against cutscene watchers myself, but it's extremely rare to see groups have a majority position in favor of the person wanting to watch them. If that's what the group wants to do, by all means, the dissenters should be cooperative. However, the CS watchers are almost always the minority.

[Azazua_azura]

Its kinda stupid people keep saying CM and Prae layout was bad. I ran through it a few times, and i don't think the CS and stuff is all the long, it is a story dungeon. There is no loot. The CS are part of the dungeon, and when you que up for story mode R you agree to do those dungeons. The roulette bonuses apart from expert, are part of the mentor system in the game. You que up to help fresh players, and get rewarded for time spent. To assume you are the majority in any party, is a bit rude as well as speaking on the behalf of others.

Remember this is a final fantasy game known for its story line cs, and Yoshida stated FF14 is a final fantasy first. The only reason they changed, is too many WoW players complained. FF11 had cs in dungeons, and people had no issues letting people watch them.

What is also annoying is this whole "my time" stuff from WoW, if you don't have enough time to do something, don't. Don't treat other players poorly, puffing your chest like your time is more importent. No one person in the groups time is more importent, the 7 other players time isn't more importent then the 8ths players. Players should communicate at the start and agree on a how to run the dungeon.

Personally speaking, a first timer should be allowed to do these dungeons in full, seeing the CS and paticipating in the fights, if we treat new playes poorly they may not stick with the game. I've personally quit mmo due to poor community, Aion being 1, DCUO being another.

Also PF is a hard option to do with these dungeons, it can take hours before 1 person is willing to join up, and that is much more of a time waster then anything. I did these 2 dungeons recently, I tried to PF it, no luck. I asked my FC but most were heading to bed(it was late). My only option was to DF it, I qu'red on my War and did the best I could to see the CS and participate. I was lucky enough that 1 person waited up so i could follow the group. I got a few commi after the run as well.

As for Prae. it was a hot mess. My group was in eso gear, and ra,mming forwrd too fast, no one waited for me so i had to follow best i could remembering the layout. I even got lost alot. And due to the speed of my group, I missed large chunks of CS, at this point though i didn't care, I have beat these dungeon 5 times already. It still sucked cuz I love prae, I love the set up to fighting ultrima, fighting ultima, and fighting lahabra.

Instead of doing the "my time" arguement, take in consideration of the full group, not the 1 vs 7, but the 8 of 8. It does suck to be the 1 newbie and have 7 other players ruin your gaming experience over the sake of token/hr. Which if you consider that it does come off as selfish.


And, a bit of a tid bit, just because something can be complated fast, doesn't mean it should. And people here like to mix could and should up forcing their personal views on others.

A big help that I've been saying for weeks now is, the English community needs to really learn to communicate at the start of dungeons, express why their there and come to an agreement. Assuming and forcing your views wastes the groups time and enjoyment, and it was because of this stuff as a fresh tank, is why i switched to a JP server.

[szalkerous]

Also, when we queue up for a roulette, the last thing we are thinking is, "Wouldn't it be great to spend half of my play time watching the same cutscenes every single day?" ...so really like someone else said, if we separated those players from the newbies, the newbies would be queuing for hours on end.

If the cutscenes are so damn important to people, I don't see why you are running them in a PUG. Go find a nice, friendly, casual free company that's willing to do private FC queues of story content. Otherwise accept that the VAST majority of people in those dungeons are not interested in making a production out of what should be a 20m run at most (and I've done both of those in a decent group within 10-12 minutes).

The honest truth is very rarely do we see the obnoxious white knight attitude in those groups, and most of them will speed run with or without the new player skipping. They still get credit at the end, and they're able to progress in the MSQ.

[KeluBehemoth]

I remember back only a month after A Realm Reborn came out, when I started the game. People were expecting you to skip it and watch it in the inn.

I tell people (the few times I do it) to watch the cut scenes. Sometimes I see some people actually say "I'm skipping them and watching them in the Inn" I say "Its Final Fantasy. Take your God Damned finger off the skip button and watch the cutscene!"

I don't wait for boss fights though. Thats where I draw the line. Even if half the group is new. Most of it can be 4 manned while waiting for them to finish the scenes.