PLD abilities

[Ultimatecalibur]

Why not apply both Deployment tactics and Divine veil?

Funny thing is people was asking for a Stone Skin that would effect all party members and we got it in the form of divine veil. It's just a matter of people knowing when to use it. it even happens to Stone Skin, a few people saying it's useless because they can't find a time to use it. in that case it's the players fault not knowing how to use the skill not the skill itself.

Its actually stronger than an AoE stoneskin on everyone but a Warrior in Defiance as the shield is equal to 10% the Paladin's hp. With an i210 Vit Paladin this is 40% (Dragoon) to 60% (Healer) stronger than Stoneskin if they are in i210.

The biggest problem I've seen with the Divine Veil is that it scales best with Vit, but the current meta favors Str.

[Donjo]

Why in the world so many PLD tanks want to complain about combos that do damage is beyond me. It's such a ridiculous thing to complain about...

I don't think that's the cause of the confusion. Take a look at all of the combo enders for the Tanks.

WAR
Storm's Path: Deals Damage... and reduces enemy damage dealt.
Storm's Eye: Deals damage... and reduces enemy slashing resistance.
Butcher's Block: Deals damage... and generates a ton of Enmity.

DRK
Delirium: Deals Damage... and reduces enemy intelligence.
Souleater: Deals Damage... and provides a self heal(in Grit at least).
Power Slash: Deals Damage... and generates a ton of Enmity.

PLD
Goring Blade: Deals Damage... and provides a powerful dot.
Rage of Halone: Deals Damage... and generates a ton of Enmity.
Royal Authority: Deals Damage... and nothing else.

Royal Authority is the only Tank combo ender that does not have any kind of additional effect. To many, this feels like a missed opportunity.

[Launched]

PLD
Goring Blade: Deals Damage... and provides a powerful dot.
Rage of Halone: Deals Damage... and generates a ton of Enmity.
Royal Authority: Deals Damage... and nothing else.

Royal Authority is the only Tank combo ender that does not have any kind of additional effect. To many, this feels like a missed opportunity.

You forgot that Halone has STR Down. Maybe you'd prefer it if that was moved to Royal to give each finisher something instead?

[Donjo]

You forgot that Halone has STR Down. Maybe you'd prefer it if that was moved to Royal to give each finisher something instead?

Haha, oops. You're right there. STR Down could be good on Royal though. It'd ensure that it stays on monsters more often no matter what the Paladin is doing.

[Ralvenom]

Royal Authority: Deals Damage... and nothing else.

I still fail to see the issue. As Launched said, Halone reduces enemy str. An attack that deals damage is perfectly acceptable for ANY CLASS, regardless of whether you like or not. Considering that PLD have block*, it balances out.

*Block & Storm's Path debuff both result in reduced dmg taken, but Block is constant. No WAR worth his/her salt keeps Storm's Path up all the time.

warrior can use vengeance at [snip]
Five times.

Divine Veil could be used at [snip]
4 times.

Let's be realistic here. There's very little reason to use vengeance at the start of a pull, since you don't need the 30% dmg reduction then. (You also probably wouldn't use it near the end of encounter either.) Likewise, you wouldn't use Divine Veil at start of pull, since you don't need the raid-wide shield then. Taking that into consideration, you basically have a viable opportunity to use either ability 3 times.

But you shouldn't really be comparing Vengeance and Divine Veil

I'm comparing them based on time. I thought that was kind of obvious, based on this sentence:

That's the same recast time as Vengeance (WAR skill).

[Brannigan]

Let's be realistic here. There's very little reason to use vengeance at the start of a pull, since you don't need the 30% dmg reduction then.

First of all, even if you don't need the 30% reduction in damage (let's say you're offtanking), SE has made it so their golden child can use Vengeance to get another stack for Fell Cleave. Second, there's plenty of fights where very early mitigation will help you. In A1S you can Vengeance right before pulling/on the pull to mitigate his opening attacks and Vengeance will be back in time for the tank buster. In A3S you can Vengeance early and defend against a swipe and protean wave. Manipulator missiles immediately on pull. Thordan cleaves within 3 GCDs. Bahamut uses Flare Breath on pull. Mitigating this stuff might let your healers get a stronger opening burst, which especially in Alexander can be the difference between an enrage and a win. None of this matters, though, because:

I'm comparing them based on time. I thought that was kind of obvious, based on this sentence: That's the same recast time as Vengeance (WAR skill).

They do not have the same recast time. If an attack comes in 2 minute intervals (like, say, A1S's tank buster), Divine Veil won't mitigate it, but Vengeance will. So will Deployment Tactics, Virus, Eye for an Eye (traited), and Reprisal. Divine Veil's only advantage is that it doesn't need an enemy target, but even still its cooldown is too long when you consider paladin's other lackluster utility. If the other stuff gets improved then sure, leave Veil as is.

[Sapphidia]

To mirror Ralvenom above, I feel people don't really understand the way to use Divine Veil best. I find it one of the more useful skills in my repertoire. I generally find good spots to use it on just about every raid encounter. It's all about adding additional stability to the group.

The onus isnt on the Healer to suddenly cast a heal on the tank to proc it. The onus is on the -tank- to know when they're being healed so it gets procced automatically. The tank has to learn the fight, and then weaves in Divine Veil at points of heaviest AOE damage, and needs to learn how their healers heal in order to ensure it procs.

It's also not really an AOE shield on its own, think of it more as a way to boost the aoe heals of your healers during moments they might otherwise struggle with (particularly back to back AOEs, or a single huge tera-flare esque like Thordan Ex's limitbreak).

Some examples - when grouped up for soaking the double cleave on the entire party in the hand phase in A3S. Pop one after the first digititis part and when everyone is stacked infront of it, you'll get healed anyway as there's so much AOE healing needed and it'll fire off and hit everyone. Thordan Ex, in the first phase you can cast it after the thunderstorm then run into the group to soak the Dragon's Rage, and the heal that healed up the Dragon's Rage will pop your Veil so it's up to soak the following Ancient Qaga. Also, when tanking A2S and standing near your co-tank and both taking lots of damage, popping your divine veil as you're being spam healed is the same as an instant cast stoneskin on the other tank.

Divine Veil is -not- good if you just pop it when people are spread out and then shout at your healers to heal you. It's mostly about knowing a fight and knowing how your team's healers heal, and then using it as a way to enhance their AOE heals on the roughest moments, often when you have multiple AOEs going out at once. Just remember that Divine Veil is procced if you get hit by a Medica or Succor, so often it's easy to just pop it before you know one of those is comign, rather than rely on a healer specifically casting a single target heal on you.

That said, I'd certainly not argue against DV getting a buff (ideally a shorter cooldown, maybe a bigger radius or a boost to 15% or something). It's okay as it is and I find I get a lot of use out of it, but it's not exactly overpowered.

[Cheraa]

Divine Veil is okay. Would like to see it trigger without an incoming heal. But well, it has some uses, even in Duty Content. In Alexander Turn 4, I use it always in both AOE Phases where players Gather. There is always an PT Heal that triggers it before the AOE DMG comes in.

Sheltron is awsome, love that talent. Even more with 3.1 to trigger shield swipe.

RA and GB are both great new Combos. I use them always.
Halone for Aggro, STR Down, followed by shield swipe, than GB Combo, followed by RA Combo. If GB Dot or STR Down are close on running out, I start one of those combos again.
With Shield Swipe oGCD I never had issues with Aggro.

[Brannigan]

C'mon man


@OP sorry for this stupid derail. Hard to let misinformation like this go. Use all of your abilities. Remember that you don't need a huge enmity gap between you and second place so you might as well get more damage from Royal Authority. Sheltron is probably our best/coolest new ability and with good timing you can block a lot of neat stuff. Clemency is useful in dungeons and if your party is full of blind people who keep stepping in the fire (it will be)

[Ralvenom]

C'mon man

Fine, I concede you're correct. Don't be condescending about it. I'm at work & can only look abilities on websites. Pardon me if all of the sites haven't udpated. (That's really quite mind-boggling...that it's 5months into the expansion, and all the sites I found had Vengeance on a 150 second recast time.) Whatever.