Paladin: The Tank Mountain

[Umbreon_skystorm]

Hi guys, I was a paladin during 2.X and I'm leveling up my pld now to level 60, I know... some ppl will complain because I'm no level 60 Yet... but let's just read before complaining ok?
Clemency: healing potency: 1200; mp cost: 1400 +/- ; cast : 3 segs.
That's amazing!!! I'm a suport tank that can help healers... but wait... while i'm MT (most plds are MT) I can't heal because my cast is interrupted by an auto-attack, so... why not adding a "surecast" effect on the shield oath? during tank busters you will get an 7k~8k heal for you to cast and you will still have a free tick of tp that will give you 60 tp+
Your Stoneskin cast is 2,5 segs so... a surecast here can help too.

(now for another Idea)
My friend and I were talking about block... and If paladins have a trait to make clemency quicker? for an emergency? so... during shield oath if you proc a "block" your casting skill time is now reduced to zero if you block an Attack during your cast... now... casts don't let people parry or block dmgs... and here is the trumph card : Shieldron, with this specific skill, you will be able to block an attack, even if you are casting, so this way you can secure a fast heal if your group need it.

[Galactimus]

Anything would work really. Though I agree that the easiest way to fix Paladin is to change what abilities do depending on what Oath you are in:


Fixes
Clemency Fix - Give Tempered Will a surecast effect while in Shield Oath.
Divine Veil Fix - Procs when a Paladin uses Clemency (or Cure) on himself in Shield Oath.

AoE Fix - Shield Swipe is a frontal cleave in Sword Oath
TP Fix - Riot Blade restores TP instead of MP when in Sword Oath

[winsock]

My friend and I were talking about block... and If paladins have a trait to make clemency quicker? for an emergency?

I can be on board for clemency having a surecast effect in certain scenarios, but you gotta be careful with the cast speed.

Healers have limited instaheals and its their job to manage those saves appropriately. An insta-save clemency steps on toes here.

Currently the long cast time allows healers to shoot their skills first. In other words, clemency doesn't take any responsibility from healers, unless the healers aren't taking it, which from a "role" standpoint is nice.

[Kosmos992k]

Anything would work really. Though I agree that the easiest way to fix Paladin is to change what abilities do depending on what Oath you are in:


Fixes
Clemency Fix - Give Tempered Will a surecast effect while in Shield Oath.
Divine Veil Fix - Procs when a Paladin uses Clemency (or Cure) on himself in Shield Oath.

AoE Fix - Shield Swipe is a frontal cleave in Sword Oath
TP Fix - Riot Blade restores TP instead of MP when in Sword Oath

These are some good ideas, and relatively balanced too.

[VargasVermillion]

Anything would work really. Though I agree that the easiest way to fix Paladin is to change what abilities do depending on what Oath you are in:


Fixes
Clemency Fix - Give Tempered Will a surecast effect while in Shield Oath.
Divine Veil Fix - Procs when a Paladin uses Clemency (or Cure) on himself in Shield Oath.

AoE Fix - Shield Swipe is a frontal cleave in Sword Oath
TP Fix - Riot Blade restores TP instead of MP when in Sword Oath

This was the type of stuff i was hoping for in HW, oath stance encouragement with different effects on abilities but once i saw WAR getting deliverance I knew it wasn't going to happen.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Healers have limited instaheals and its their job to manage those saves appropriately. An insta-save clemency steps on toes here.

I don't think An instant or shorter cast time on Clemency would step too far into the main healing territory if it had limitations on it i.e Divine Viel Could have an "Additional Effect: Swift Cast" attached to it which would lock instant clemency behind a 2min cooldown. Tempered Will could have a Surecast effect like other people have suggested. And like the OP said, stuff with blocks adding spell speed or reducing cast time by X seconds. Little sh*t like that would add some serious flavor to Paladin.

[Kydi]

To be honest, a warrior with equilibrium is basically taking the insta heal role without breaking the game. There were a number of occasions when I've had a 10/11k critical after the tank buster and just healed to full. An insta clemency every now and again wouldn't break the game imo.

[winsock]

I don't think An instant or shorter cast time on Clemency would step too far into the main healing territory if it had limitations on it i.e Divine Viel Could have an "Additional Effect: Swift Cast" attached to it which would lock instant clemency behind a 2min cooldown.

While I think we disagree, I do respect that you recognize that a change like this would make clemency step on healer's toes. I agree that it would add flavor to PLD, but dont like that it does so at the expense of healers.

A 2min cd sounds like quite the penalty on paper, but consider: benediction is 5mins, tetra is 1min, and PLD is a tank. I might compare it to giving healers a provoke ability that directs that lets them perform tank swaps for the tanks. If this tankswap ability had an 80 second cooldown, it would still step to far IMO, because the mechanic is a tanking responsibility, just as managing saves is a healer responsibility.

I think one thing we can agree on, is that SE gave roles quite a bit of consideration when designing skills like clemency and divine veil, as clemency's cast time is long enough to allow the healer to take responsibility and divine veil is triggered by the healers.

To be honest, a warrior with equilibrium is basically taking the insta heal role without breaking the game.

No. A target heal and a self heal are two different things. Everyone has some responsibility for their own hp bar and this is especially true for tanks. If you'd like to make clemency a insta-cast skill, but it can only be used on the PLD casting it, I'd be fine with that from a "role" perspective.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Stuffs and things

I think this might be the first rational argument I've ever read/had on forums ever LOL.

[Alex_Lenderson]

I can be on board for clemency having a surecast effect in certain scenarios, but you gotta be careful with the cast speed.

Healers have limited instaheals and its their job to manage those saves appropriately. An insta-save clemency steps on toes here.

Currently the long cast time allows healers to shoot their skills first. In other words, clemency doesn't take any responsibility from healers, unless the healers aren't taking it, which from a "role" standpoint is nice.

As a main healer... I have no problems with PLDs getting an insta heal.