Curaga draw way too much hate!

[tachikoma]

Damage over time spells. I like the fact that DoTs are difficult to land. I think it makes for some engaging mechanics. Ie: Ogre fight where during enrage dots are easier to land. Unfortunately, when mages can't land dots, our dps sucks (which I'll get into in another section.). Dots need to be significantly buffed if the resistances are going to be higher to landing dots. Secondly, dot durations need a little love too. Its annoying seeing your buff go up, and then 5 seconds later seeing it vanish. Did it even do any damage? Lastly, we don't know how dot damage is calculated nor do we know how much the dots even do. I think SE needs to release some information here, or at least in 1.2 letting us know how dots work.

This would be much appreciated some clarity on dots how they work and giving them a buff to duration would be great!

[MeowMeow]

I'm sure it's been said many times, but use stoneskin instead of curaga. It doesn't generate much enmity at all, and it does the job. ( I read the OP, not all of the 6 pages or w/e of posts after.)

Stoneskin cures (Prevents) future damage.
Curaga cures pre-existing damage.

And give your tank stygian spikes for the love of god. Since curing generates the most hate, shouldn't they be healing themselves when they can?

Currently you gain 1 enmity per damage you deal. So if you hit a mob for 100 on a basic attack, you get 100 enmity.
You gain 0.75 enmity for each HP you heal. So if you heal somebody for 700 with cure/sac 3 you get 525 enmity. If you AOE heal 8 people, and say they all get 400 hp, thats 300 enmity you gain per person. 300 x 8 = 2,400 enmity.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/54373.html <]= That is a table that shows the amount of enmity every ability gives.

As you can see, provoke 2 only gives 442 enmity. This is why its increasingly difficult to tank exp mobs. people hit exp/leve mobs for a lot more damage than they hit NM's for. Provoke will always give 442 enmity, but on a normal mob, dps can easily HIT for over 442 damage on their buffed up best ws's. Since they get 1 enmity for each damage dealt, its easy to see why its hard to tank exp mobs, and why mrd tends to be better at it now (they, quite simply, annihilate gladiators in damage dealt). On NM's, however, people hit significantly lower numbers in damage. Thus, making it EASY to hold agro on such targets. It's been this way since 1.18. Healing, however, will always pull a lot of agro. 0.75 enmity per hp healed will get you killed on an NM if you spam heal. Let other mages heal too to balance hate.


End note: Stoneskin 2 gives 9 enmity per person hit. If you hit 8 people, that is 72 enmity. If you cure ONE person for only 400 hp, you get 300 enmity. That's a pretty big difference. That is why good thm's and cons ALL have stoneskin on their bars, so they can alternate who casts it, and alleviate the healing enmity issue.

Also, for the love of god get second wind 2 and the +10% healing trait from pugilist since its so easy to level up nowdays, all you tanks. Second wind 2 works exactly the same way as getting cured does. Every hp you recover gives you 0.75 enmity. Bloodbath, however, does not work like this. You get 0 extra enmity from the hp you recover with bloodbath. This mean, as a tank, you should prioritize the use of second wind over bloodbath. As a DPS, you should use bloodbath over second wind, as it gives you less hate. (But obviously this doesnt mean you shouldnt use both if you need to.)

[Alise]

I have to disagree on what Tibian says.

I think CON are fineas it is now except your probably right about the emity issue that prevent them from spare any heal into group instead of GLA alone.

from what I see in your post is that you are going to make playing a mage, much much easier than the currently is. So you says you lazy to cast buff multiple time during boss fight?, and that it is hard to group people for AoE during that? so you ask SE to make it that u can just do it before fight so that you don't have to worry it on fight?. I think part of the fun of fight is how to manage this. No matter how much people in your group spread out from Ifrit WS, you still need to look for chance to buff them.

[Radamanth]

I agree with meowmeow. Now that I can say that I have experienced the ifrit fight and the 1.19 patch in all of its glory, I think that not only is it important to play the job you chose as main, but for others to play theirs as well. I can try my hardest all day long to cure everyone but if they arent doing their jobs respectively then i am at a loss as well. second wind and the 10% healing traits are must for melee's. MANAGE YOUR OWN AGGRO, it is not up to the mages to keep idiots alive that want to just tank and spank. have some patience and diligence. use the abilities given to your class, and cross class the necessary ones.

as far as curaga goes, I think i may have used it once or twice since it has been introduced in the game. having mages cycle thru cures and take turns is a must to help manage enmity, so that not one mage is incurring all the hate. if you take the numbers that were given for hate generation, 442 for provoke, and 300 for a cure III, give that 442 to one person every what 15 seconds, and spread 525 to 3 different people every 30 seconds, your tank will keep hate and you will slowly drop down on the hate list compared to the dps of LNC and MRD. mind you as a mage your not generating much hate other than cures so I dont count the other small stuff. while all that is going on, the GLAD is still hitting the mob and doing other things to generate hate, so you should stay down on the hate list.
as far as the length of buffs that is the only other thing im in true agreeance with. maybe not so much a 30 minute buff, but perhaps double what it is now, 8 minutes maybe, and using things like roaming soul could add another 33.3%. doing buffs is my biggest pet pieve in this game. in MMO's I have always relied on buffs to last a duration of time in which I dont want to think about it, and this goes back to the Everquest days of having to /ooc for mind candy....
the hardest thing for me that I find with CON is what do I really want on my bar. I want so much and I have so much to choose from, and I have different bars for different things. I really love the cross class idea this game has to offer and I really think some of you need to learn how to utilize it to benefit how you play. this is not a one-job-to-50 game the investment is having to do multiple things.

Everyone plays their character different. learn to play yours that fits your style, but, also try to follow the game mechanics. if you dont want to take the time to learn game mechanics, you shouldnt be able to even go into the Ifrit fight

someone had also brought up the notion of fluid animations. my ONLY suggestion on this, if you are going to have battles that force you to run every 5-10 seconds, then abilities have to be able to be cast while running and animations should not slow you down. i love dynamic fights!!! static fights get boring. so, in turn, characters have to be dynamic as well.

P.S. for all of you that are playing CON as a healer main. CONSERVE YOUR MP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Do not blow your MP pool like it was your luckiest day on prom night. being a healer is not only knowing when to heal, BUT WHEN NOT TO!!!!

[Crux]

The aoe toggle for DD spells is awesome, I can't understand why anyone would want it removed. It gives more flexibility and having aoe damage spells is a big reason I am playing a mage. I also agree that it was probably op'd for cures.

1. Better spell animations, it is one thing I love about the FF series. It is cosmetic, but important.
2. Less enmity on Cures. Just coming back and leveling up, I die so much. You do need to use Curaga in exp parties, there are aoe's. They are pug's not everyone is going to be awesome at their job. We can't all get the perfect tanks, the perfect healers or perfect damage classes, every time we go out to party.
3. Longer lasting buffs, 5 min is too short.
4. Re-raise and Tractor please.

[Tonkra]

1. Better spell animations, it is one thing I love about the FF series. It is cosmetic, but important.

Well i think the spell animations are good (better than in FF11) except the ancient magic spells, they are too "tiny" nad not epic enough (but they are just the "I". ancient spells)

i think the casting animations are too simple, comparing it to FF11.
Making a disctinction in casting animations between elemental attack and healing spells for example.

i liked that much more in FF11

[Coglin]

How did they actually develope the determination that stoneskin II is only 9 enmity per person?

[Viridiana]

How did they actually develope the determination that stoneskin II is only 9 enmity per person?

Description of test methodology.

[Coglin]

Yes, I am familiar with the methodology, I simply have not seen a write up on where SS II was tested. I must be missing it when I read the information on your link?

[NarikoStar]

Yes, I am familiar with the methodology, I simply have not seen a write up on where SS II was tested. I must be missing it when I read the information on your link?

I believe he is referring to this table (written up by Leta as well).

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2623/enmtable.png

Where as Stoneskin I is equivalent to 9 enmity while Stoneskin II at Rk50 is also equivalent to 9 enmity. Wether or not it's multiplied over the amount of members who receive the effect I'm not quite sure. But I can tell you from personal testing that Soughspeak >> Stoneskin II will generate no hate which I have yet to see posted here. According to that chart soughspeak looks to be a -10 enm, which would look to imply if I don't pull hate casting over 8 members that Stoneskin II is not multiplied over the amount of members casted on, but a single 9 enmity generation per cast. (This could also only be appearing that way because 1 member has solid hate, I'm not quite sure but if someone has some more tests or experience with this it would be great to hear back, but from personal experience/findings it looks to be a static +9 enmity generation regardless if it hits 1~8members)

I'm not sure if this was a change or if it has always been this way (looks like it has been this way since testing took place). Ever since PLing was introduced our group noticed it prior to PLing patch when attempting lower CNJs / THMs to avoid receiving hate. I also use this Ifrit as we tested the tank running in to aggro then a CNJ proceeded to soughspeak >> Stoneskin II for no hate. Although, this might also refer back to the original enmity testing Kanican made about 'super tanking' when a mob is simply 'yellow' either way, when testing this out during PLing the mobs were red. A simple 'cure' or 'poisona' would draw hate if the MRD had not AoE'd yet while a soughspeak >> Stoneskin II wouldn't even draw them away.


Hope this helps some of you all I find it a nifty trick while leveling my fiance's CNJ @ strongholds.

D: Sorry for wall of text! Happy findings!