Gladiator is not broken, but Enmity moves need to be at least x4 power

[UnrealTai]

I was in a party started with 8 doing raptors (my next job to 50) and I can say MRD does not have a huge advantage of GLA.

I see a lot of whining over how GLAs can be won out by MRDs tanking and enmity then dmg too.

Well the MRD in my raptor party was all decked out and 2 levels higher, he couldn't do what I was doing. Which was to rush in first and get 4 links of raps 3 levels higher then me, and cause my party was slow following me, being able to stay alive and keep hp above 50%, you just need to learn to pop your skills better. I agree, enmity generation on GLA needs to be at least 4 times stronger then what it is now, I shouldn't have to spend the whole battle spamming enmity abilities just to hold hate then end the battle with a cover on the aoe casting mage without getting a minute to at least do one circle slash.

I think the large problem is that now most GLA won't rush in to a group of mobs first, they're lazy.
Nor will they try to spam things that generate aoe enmity enough. Our party went down to 4 players lvl 39 at the 40-42 raptor camp and I was still pulling between 3 up to 8 raptors head first in there.
DMG doesnt need to be upgraded for GLA, Enmity generation does, massively. And even as much as I spammed I was able to keep hate half the time on all the mobs.

GLAs, stop being lazy, stop being scared, stop expecting to press one button and hold everything, stop sitting there letting a MRD or LNC rush in first when you know damn well if you DONT rush in first your not gonna be doing your job. /endrant

GLA is not supposed to do dmg, stop complaining about that....... ask for much higher AOE enmity generation from our abilities....... Plus idc what anyone says, proper use of your job abilities you WILL survive 5 times longer then a mrd can alone , at least in a party situation. Your not DD's your tanks. Enough GLAs trying to rush in and not even provoke and purposely wait for an arc lnc mrd to pull a group first. If you constantly sit there watching and following another player in your party thats not a fellow GLA, then your a bad GLA. Switch classes. (To about 85% of the GLAs in parties I have seen so far). How fun that party is going to be is going to be up to you, your the one that is supposed to lunge head first into the next group of mobs, your the one thats not supposed to sit there 10 seconds after a group dies wondering whats going on cause your a freaking airhead, your the one thats a GLA. ACT LIKE ONE. You control the tempo for the party, so set it and dont stop pulling unless things get crazy. If you dont and let a mrd or lnc and then wonder why people keep dying in your party even though the mobs are only 2-3 levels higher then ask yourself this, are you acting like a GLA or are you acting like some remedial WoW player?

So lets say you do this, and you end up dying in 10 seconds because your wondering if I'm clinically insane cause if a MRD pulls 8 mobs 3 lvls higher he'll die in 10 seconds, so how is a GLA expected to do that and stay alive over 30 seconds without an outside cure even.

Figure out that last part and I think you just figured out how to have great xp parties. Cadance + circle + wardrum at the start? Follow fast by sent aegis boon and the +chance to block with shield ability? youll be sitting there generating HP instead of being dead for the next 30 seconds..... Start making those macro's ladies. Pulled too many mobs? Pop sentinel. pulled WAY too many? Pop off rampart II. Feel like going to bed or too much for you, GET OFF GLA THEN. I wanna start hearing moans, not mew mew mew cries. YOUR GLAS!!! Thank you, lol.

[leomike35]

Well said. I just hope when they add better enmity generation they buff the time that sentinel is active. I think 30 mins would rock like a marauder's defender.

[Viridiana]

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but 4x stronger? Really? Just. . . no. That literally would allow you to push one button and hold hate off of everyone (or close enough to it). For AoE enmity, your best bet is to pretend you're a mix of DD and healer. Warmonger, AoE, heal, AoE again. Of course, a MRD could do the same thing, and they have better AoE attacks. . .

Well said. I just hope when they add better enmity generation they buff the time that sentinel is active. I think 30 mins would rock like a marauder's defender.

Really? This post got a like, but the main post didn't? A 30 minute Sentinel would be horrible, because in order to balance it they'd have to make it next-to-worthless.

[GreyJorildyn]

So what you're saying is that you're no level 50 and your opinion on the entire matter is based on your experiences in a single xp party with some random marauder of unknown skill (gear != skill). I presume you also do not have a 50 mrd yourself to directly compare the two before your own eyes.

Look, gla is great against a single target. It reduces damage well and it keeps hate well against that one target. However, imagine for a moment that you lose the shield, some of the dmg mitigation, but can spam a weapon skill that is not only aoe, but also A-tier in terms of dmg and has the added effect of increasing enmity. There is no simple fix as the issue is multifaceted. Increasing the enmity generated by abilities will just help other tanks too.

In lengthy fights and on certain (currently: most) targets mrd is a better tank.
It generates enmity faster, on multiple targets, and what you give up to get that is forgivable against big mobs atm.


Hopefully we'll see a better balance in the future. Stuff seems to change every patch for the better. Once they close the gap in ability all will be well. Just don't deny it to yourself that mrd isn't better atm, because it is in nearly every situation out there, just witu varying levels of success.

[Viridiana]

Look, gla is great against a single target. It reduces damage well and it keeps hate well against that one target. However, imagine for a moment that you lose the shield, some of the dmg mitigation, but can spam a weapon skill that is not only aoe, but also A-tier in terms of dmg and has the added effect of increasing enmity. There is no simple fix as the issue is multifaceted. Increasing the enmity generated by abilities will just help other tanks too.

Yeah, and it's not helping that the shield you're giving up is also keeping you from parrying. Meaning that, at best, the shield does almost as much harm as good. . .

[KRose]

The thing is though, my 36MRD can essentially do the same thing your GLA did in this party. I can literally run in, pop Sentinel (I have Swordmanship. wooo) and if need be, pop Rampart II. Open with Full Swing and depending on how many mobs I hit I can Keen Flurry + Brandish II x2. The way the current enmity system works I will almost always end up tanking from that point until they die.

But more on topic, I do think Gladiator needs their enmity skills buffed. x4 is a little insane but it'd be nice to have some sort of increase. I think Sentinel is fine as is but with the recent adjustment to how blocking works and the fact you can't parry with a shield, I think that either Ambidexterity needs to have a shorter cooldown (you'd be amazed at how many GLA's I've partied with who don't even know this skill exists) or block rate needs to go up in general. Mind you, I'm only 37 so I'm not sure what block rate looks like at 50. It seems fairly low at the moment, even with Self-Preservation.

As far as strongholds though... I haven't seen a MRD get outtanked by a GLA in my parties simply because of the sheer damage that Storm's Path does on top of the +enmity factor. Barring Ifrit (that seems to be the fight everyone points back to for the whole GLA vs MRD argument) because we don't have any other fight like that in the game at the moment, I still prefer to have a Gladiator for those 1 vs 1 fights. Sentinel and Rampart II can both be utilized to their full extent and GLA has a higher MP pool so they have the ability to heal themselves longer. I've popped Ambidexterity + Boon II/Deflection at my level and it's still been crazy effective so I'm assuming it can still be amazing at 50.

A lot of stuff came in with this patch and people are still trying to get used to it as well as mess around and experiment with different stats/materia/etc and they've even said about messing around with skills/abilities/enmity more. Give it a bit for things to settle and for them to keep implementing before declaring that they need a x4 buff to enmity skills.

[DantesAmore]

GLA works great and enmity is EASY to build ... Provoke II + Taunt II + war drum + obsess II and 1 self cure.. add intimidation+axemenship to your traits and you wont be looseing hate. put accomplish on and let your pt tell you when they red/yellow strip hate and accomplish them to take their hate onto you. mix in some damage with consistant buffs like obess II and rampart, sentinel and continue to use provoke and taunt . if your loosing hate still it means whoever is taking hate off you is being dumb and not using Out of Sight+Bowmenship. using this method post 1.19a i've tanked Deepvoid slave, batraal, uraeus, elder mosshorn+minons, Great Buffalo,Dodore+minons, Haughtblox bloatbelly and ifrit. never lost hate once except on Great Buffalo when he does the hate reset and i'm not paying attention (i forgot to revoke him lol).

worse case scenario put a enmity +9 on your belt

this method has worked for me since day 1 and continues to work. i have a guide on the excellence website in the forums the pallets i use allow GLA to hold any mob.

only issue i've ever had is tanking multi mobs like skele groups but thats only cause i only use 4 AoE hate builds.. Warmonger, War Drum, Circle Slash, Leg Sweep

when we fight HNM's and such the team only gives me a 30sec head start thats all you should need to spam all the hate moves and take a nice blow to the face then cure III yourself. Hate is a team effort, if your tank has trouble holding it then stay back a few seconds let him build hate. traits and abilities really make or break a good tank.

DD's and mages should have Out of Sight+bowmenship as well as Chameleon IF the tank cant do it right.

[GreyJorildyn]

Well-geared and skilled Lancers and Marauders can rip hate from an equally geared and skilled tank due to current game mechanics. The early portions of fights can be a struggle but once you're 2-3minutes deep, it turns in favor of the GLA. Exp mobs are wasted effort.

[Nanaya]

They do need to increase enmity generation in Gladiators favor, but not through abilities, because like someone said, that benefits every job, and Marauder would still reign supreme endgame. Perhaps the Gladiator job itself can get a passive enmity increase ability at 30 or so. And they need to excise that ridiculous "Give every mob a ranged attack" situation, bring back the option to kite endgame mobs. In a situation like that, even current GLA should be able to trump MRD.

And of course, if we're giving up parry for some inexplicable reason, we better be getting at least double the amount of shield blocks we are getting right now. Square abandoned the idea of Gladiator becoming a possible DD by forfeiting use of the shield, so our shield should be inseparable from us, unlike now where it's strongly advise to leave the damn thing at home if you try and tank Ifrit.

I feel like if they can give a class specific enmity buff, NM content that involves kiting, and being able to do things XI got right years ago, like the ability to block physical TP attacks, Gladiator just might be as good as Paladin was after Square got over their Ninja tank circlejerk.

[Rogue]

to the OP

It looks like you post only has low 40's (?) experience parties in mind

trust me, when that mrd gets storms path you will see a different picture

and going into a beastman stronghold on glad is pretty much pointless since circle slash does very little damage

put it this way, pretty much all you can do as glad to keep aoe hate is cadence + circle slash, warmonger + war drum, the mrd will still take hate with one maybe two storms path, and he will be throwing them out thick and fast,

Ive had mages spam curagas and still not take hate on mrd.

mrd has about 90% damage mitigation of glad with about 300% more dps- whcih makes it allmost allways the best tank.