The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[myahele]

It makes sense that he's still considered a Greystone as opposed to a Fortemp. His father might recognize him as his son, but he's not been officially named a Fortemp due to Ishgardian politics, most likely. We know just how rigid Ishgard is with tradition, recognizing and having a bastard live with the head household is scandal. I'd imagine it'll be an even greater scandal if they made him into a Fortemp. With inheritance and all.

And knowing Haurchefant and his father, it would not surprise me at all if his father planned on making it official, but Haurchefant refused.

[Anonymoose]

I am awaiting the end of the series to continue reading, books in particular

I look forward to discussing it with you as we point out references in the lore of FFXVII Online.

(Not that he shouldn't take as long as is required to be completely comfortable with them. I would.)

[Cilia]

Posthumously inducting Haurchefant into House Fortemps would ruin the point of his character.

[Emmanellain]

Gosh, that's kinda sad when you think about it.. Knowing that his memorial and the minion are both by house Hallienarte(granted the minion was crafted by the first born son). That means when his close childhood friend Francel was to pick a last name for Haurchefant's memorial. He basically picked Greystone instead of using Haurchefant's battle title (of the silver fuller) that he was known for and had fought for.
I mean it's a memorial so he didn't have to immortalize Haurchefant's bastard status, but the fact that it now is, is kinda sad.

[Morningstar1337]

Gosh, that's kinda sad when you think about it.. Knowing that his memorial and the minion are both by house Hallienarte(granted the minion was crafted by the first born son). That means when his close childhood friend Francel was to pick a last name for Haurchefant's memorial. He basically picked Greystone instead of using Haurchefant's battle title (of the silver fuller) that he was known for and had fought for.
I mean it's a memorial so he didn't have to immortalize Haurchefant's bastard status, but the fact that it now is, is kinda sad.

I would like to ask if we know anything about Ishgardian funereally laws. I want to see if there's anything requiring the use of the deceased name, bastard surname and all, on tombstones

[Yuyuka3]

I was kind of surprised to see so much resistance to the idea that it was a bastard surname (to the point that, hey, maybe he had two battle titles and they nixed the surname on his public memorial in favor of the less popular one).

It's a core feature of Haurchefant's character that the most chivalrous member of House Fortemps was supposedly beneath its name. It's almost more offensive to raise him up after he's dead, isn't it? Treating him like he earned an upgraded name when in truth he humbled those who bear it? When it comes to what goes down in history, Haurchefant Greystone is an example that I wouldn't want diluted by a posthumous feel-good gesture.

If in-world logic isn't enough, though, let's come out-of-world for a minute.
Haurchefant needed a quick-but-meaningful backstory and they invoked Jon Snow.

I just want to clarify that I'm not saddened about the fact that he didn't receiven an 'upgrade' upon his death by being called a Fortemps or something like that.
I'm saddened that they make such a distinction as in giving him a very obviously non-Ishgardian name, so that it's quite obvious for everyone who ever met an Elezen that something's wrong with his family name. I would have been quite okay with him bearing an Elezen-like surname that could have also been argued to be his mother's. But, what they did is make it so obvious even an blind idiot can see it. I hope I explained it right, since I know that's not always my forte.
But, well. Being accepted into a family usually includes bearing that family's name.

I am, however, aware of where this comes from. I know about that naming convention for bastards in Game of Thrones, and I'm also very aware about where Martin got his inspiration from. 'Fitzroy' was already mentioned, but there is also a very real, and later on very powerful british noble house - the House Beaufort. They where illegitimate decendants of John of Gaunt, before being legitimized when he was actually able to marry their mother. Still, the fact remains that they where originally bastards, and surely suffered from that. So, yeah. I guess my main peeve is that society brands children for something they got no say in... until today, even if to a much lesser extend.

[Ayuhra]

I was kind of surprised to see so much resistance to the idea that it was a bastard surname (to the point that, hey, maybe he had two battle titles and they nixed the surname on his public memorial in favor of the less popular one).

I think the confusion here comes from Haurchefant Greystone (now confirmed a bastard surname) has the same style to it as, say Paulecrain Coldfire (we don't know if he's a bastard), Estinien Wyrmblood (probably not) and Artoirel Ironbone (we know he is not). It could be that Greystone refers to place of birth and the rule is if it sounds fancier or not at all like a potential place description it's a battle name. Still, it would be a lot clearer if battle titles were all displayed as "of the" or "the".

This is what initially confused me, anyroad. But I am not a clever woman.

[Emmanellain]

I would like to ask if we know anything about Ishgardian funereally laws. I want to see if there's anything requiring the use of the deceased name, bastard surname and all, on tombstones

Well what we do know is that his memorial by the lover's stone overlooking Ishgard isn't his actual grave, but a memorial commissioned by Francel. So it isn't his actual grave but a stone set in honor for him. My guess is that he's probably buried at a family burial site or near it. But that's all speculation on my part since we don't know where he's actually buried.

[Exodus-E]

I'm really starting to hate Ishgard now...

Only now?

Midgardsormr's opinion of it was pretty much spot on ("Delusion. Despair. Death. Thou shall find naught else here").

Even though we started "fixing" it a bit more, I still believe it should burn.
If only because SICKNESS MUST BE PURGED.
And by sickness, I mean its people (or at the very least the Holy See itself).

[Yuyuka3]

Only now?

Midgardsormr's opinion of it was pretty much spot on ("Delusion. Despair. Death. Thou shall find naught else here").

Even though we started "fixing" it a bit more, I still believe it should burn.
If only because SICKNESS MUST BE PURGED.
And by sickness, I mean its people (or at the very least the Holy See itself).

Sorry, but for me, genocide can NEVER be the solution. Yes, Ishgard started the war. Yes, the Holy See and the High Houses suppressed ~90% of the citizens through lies and terror. Still, by purging the entire city, you will involuntarily kill an awful lot of innocent people. It would put us on the same step as the Garleans and Ascians. It is exactly what Nidhogg is doing, punishing people for the misstakes of their ancestors. That's something I really despise.
If you want to change something, do it with means that are actually helpful. Like, replacing the government, changing its structures from within... oh, wait, we are already doing this. So sorry that change actually needs time.

And people aren't a 'sickness', by the way.