The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[Magnesium02]

Hey guys,

Just popping in to remove all ambiguity: Greystone is a bastard surname. That is all. Carry on!

Yay. Thanks for the answer, however brief - I quoted it in the OP for reference. I still wonder though, if there are other bastard monikers, or if all bastards are called Greystone.

[ExKage]

I'm guessing that "a bastard surname" means that they have surnames that they just give to bastards? Do we know if the Heavens' Ward members who seem to have similar surnames have bastard surnames or are those titles?

[Anonymoose]

I'm guessing that "a bastard surname" means that they have surnames that they just give to bastards?

Bastard surnames are a common theme in one huge franchise at the moment, and not really that big of a thing elsewhere. By the ancient rite of shibboleth, I suspect that you are not a big fan of the works of George R. R. Martin. (Shun the nonbeliever! Shunnn! Shunnnn-n-n-nuh...)

In Westeros, there are seven kingdoms (and a further two regions) where noble families customarily (but not necessarily) give bastard children a surname that separates them from their father's house. For example, if you're a noble bastard from the North, your trueborn siblings would inherit your father's name, but you would have the surname Snow. If you were from the Vale, it would be Stone. The Riverlands, it would be Rivers. And so on. If your dad got around, he might have some of each. It just signifies that you are not in the line of inheritance (unless something catastrophic happens to your bloodline and the king signs a decree re-establishing the name and title upon the bastard to keep it going). In a lot of cases, you also get treated like crap by snobby nobles.

My assumption is that using the name Haurchefant Greystone was a way to invoke our contemporary cultural knowledge to let a big enough chunk of people know what's up that they can fill in the rest. If you know Jon Snow, you have a lot of context for what's up with Haurchefant (not that they didn't explain it good'nuff between the MSQ and the Tales from the Dragonsong War).

Do we know if the Heavens' Ward members who seem to have similar surnames have bastard surnames or are those titles?

It's a pretty safe bet that unless you're told otherwise, you're looking battle nicknames and not bastard surnames.
Even Haurchefant wasn't Haurchefant Greystone in battle.

[ExKage]

Bastard surnames are a common theme in one huge franchise at the moment, and not really that big of a thing elsewhere. By the ancient rite of shibboleth, I suspect that you are not a big fan of the works of George R. R. Martin. (Shun the nonbeliever! Shunnn! Shunnnn-n-n-nuh...)

I apologize all A Song of Ice and Fire fans! I am awaiting the end of the series to continue reading, books in particular to save my heart from tearing up inside from angst over some of those who I briefly fell in love with. Or his death.

:|

[Anonymoose]

I am awaiting the end of the series to continue reading, books in particular

I look forward to discussing it with you as we point out references in the lore of FFXVII Online.

(Not that he shouldn't take as long as is required to be completely comfortable with them. I would.)

[Naria]

To be fair, bastard surnames are an actual tradition that GRRM just expanded on. The illegitimate children of English royals were sometimes called Fitzroy or "son of the king". But yeah, this is definitely invoking GRRM's works.

[JonBigwood]

To be fair, bastard surnames are an actual tradition that GRRM just expanded on. The illegitimate children of English royals were sometimes called Fitzroy or "son of the king". But yeah, this is definitely invoking GRRM's works.

Yes, I think it is Game of Thrones thing. In England Fitz was used for bastards (not only royal), life Fitz James Stuart are from a bastard of King James of England and Scotland.

But I think usually if the father recognised the son (all Europe), he got the family name but no inheriting rights. (Fathers usually took care that their bastards did well too. Kings gave titles and lands or managed church positions, other important fathers too. Popes, cardinals, bishops etc also had bastards and took care of them, usually with their father family name.)

If there is no known father the son would normally have the mother's family name.

And when no father nor mother is known, they might receive some surname indicating that origin (such as Exposito in Spain) or just give the child a frequent family name. That idea that all bastards of some region or kingdom are given the same surname is Game of Thrones mostly.

[Rocl]

Can someone give us Aymeric's last name (*'=') I need to get all my bastards in a row here

[myahele]

It makes sense that he's still considered a Greystone as opposed to a Fortemp. His father might recognize him as his son, but he's not been officially named a Fortemp due to Ishgardian politics, most likely. We know just how rigid Ishgard is with tradition, recognizing and having a bastard live with the head household is scandal. I'd imagine it'll be an even greater scandal if they made him into a Fortemp. With inheritance and all.

And knowing Haurchefant and his father, it would not surprise me at all if his father planned on making it official, but Haurchefant refused.

[Cilia]

Posthumously inducting Haurchefant into House Fortemps would ruin the point of his character.