The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[Emmanellain]

More the other way around - they invoked the Jon-Snow-like background early on in Heavensward (brother's quests) and then later applied a bastard surname that fit the invocation.

It's really hammered home by the item description of the very same minion: What isn't dead (or is recreated in a goldsmith's workshop) can never die. Even that is an A Song of Ice and Fire joke based on a prayer to the Drowned God.

Inb4 more Haurchefant resurrection theories.

/inserts Haurchefant ressurection theory

[Anonymoose]

[Haurchefant Ixion]

(Yes, that is Haurchefant.)

Also, can we start calling the ixion-centaur-thing Horsechefant? I'm gonna start calling it Horsechefant.

[Emmanellain]

(Yes, that is Haurchefant.)

Also, can we start calling the ixion-centaur-thing Horsechefant? I'm gonna start calling it Horsechefant.

The Ixion-Haurchefant/ascian resurrection theories have amassed enough popularity on social media, might as well give the most heart wrenching one a cute name like Horsechefant lol

Although the vast majority of us would ugly cry if we had to put him down.

[Ayuhra]

I am getting kind of sick of all the Song of Ice and Fire references in this game. Fine series of books/shows but come on, already.

Inb4 more Haurchefant resurrection theories.

/draws a deep breath....


No I don't really think he's coming back unless it is as Ixion or an Ascian puppet (we know what they can do with fresh corpses). Coming back to life for realsies is unlikely....sort of.

I don't think SE really planned for this character to skyrocket in popularity like this.

[Cilia]

I don't think SE really planned for [Haurchefant] to skyrocket in popularity like this.

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar. You may have become friends over time, but it was largely an alliance of convenience (for them) that could have played out like my reaction to the average episode of Dora the Explorer.

Local Archon: "You wanna join the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and help protect the realm?"
Warrior of Light: "Not really...?"
Local Archon: "Great! Meet me at the Waking Sands in Vesper Bay, Western Thanalan!"

Compare to Haurchefant, who asks you a (relatively) small favor he just can't do because of his station and is eternally and genuinely grateful for it. Even if he is more than a little flamboyant, especially in the Japanese dialogue.

That said, I do wish they'd stop laying him on quite so thick.

[Emmanellain]

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar.

That said, I do wish they'd stop laying him on quite so thick.

Tbh I think it's awesome that they pay so much attention to the fanbase, I've never seen an MMO be as in tune with their audience and giving them what they want before or pay homage to popular NPC's as this one. It feels like a sincere apology from SE for killing off one of the players few genuine NPC friends. Many people i know find it suspicious as to why there's SO much content around him after he died, i mean christ most NPC's in Camp Dragonhead change dialogue several times depending on where you are in the MSQ after his death. Same with Francel and his presence by Haurchefant's monument after 3.1. Then there's all these Haurchefant items and the overall significance of his death in the MSQ and him being constantly mentioned and quoted. I doubt they'd bring him back as a primal or as an Ascian puppet (although i would find it insanely heart wrenching and interesting story wise, seeing how he can be used as a tool against the WoL) as they already have a script laid out and i bet they put all these things in for the fans since he's so popular with the JP, EU and NA fanbase.
I doubt we'll see more of Haurchefant in the future unless they pull an ixion or Ascian possession, so getting to say goodbye was nice. I was scared that he might get the Moenbryda treatment but i got pleasantly surprised.

[Naria]

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar.

I agree with this. If fact Alphaunad's realization that the Warrior of Light is an actual person and not just a convenient implement of mass destruction in 3.0 is a large part of what has made me start to warm to his character. With most of the Scions regardless of how much I may like their character have never really felt like friends with the WoL. Allies yes, or coworkers perhaps but if the WoL suddenly lost a leg or the Echo tomorrow and was no longer able to fight, I don't feel they'd stand by them. Feel bad, sure. Send them a gift at Starlight, sure. Maybe drop by if they were in town and not too busy. Hauchefant on the other hand I feel would have done whatever he could have to help the WoL. While he certainly found the ability to fight primals . . . er . . . impressive, the sudden lack of that ability would not have changed his regard.

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

I've always felt that the surviving members of the Circle of Knowing share a comradery with each other that the other Scions are not a part of. This isn't actually a criticism of how the Scions have been portrayed given that even if you are a Legacy player you don't actually interact with them outside of "work" that much, so it is not surprising. I praise Hauchefant's character more since they managed to give him a more personal relationship with so little actual "screen time" when compared to the other characters.

Still I feel the game is poorer without Hauchefant or a truly personal friendship for the WoL. Perhaps with his sibling declaration in 3.1 the WoL will start to have a closer friendship Artoriel. Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

[Cilia]

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

...

Still I feel the game is poorer without Hauchefant or a truly personal friendship for the WoL. Perhaps with his sibling declaration in 3.1 the WoL will start to have a closer friendship Artoriel. Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

That's ultimately what it comes down to.

Minfilia, and by extension the rest of the Scions probably, used the rationale of "You are the Warrior of Light, Eorzea's hope!" to clarify why they were willing to sacrifice themselves to keep you safe.

Haurchefant just didn't want to see you get hurt because he cared about you. That's the kind of friend someone like the Warrior of Light needs, not someone who makes you shoulder the burden of being the hope of the world. Arguably that's why Alphinaud, Estinien, and Ysayle all become friends with the Warrior of Light to varying degrees - they treat you more like a person than a tool compared to how it was with the Scions' "Go kill this primal, Warrior of Light!"

Hopefully we do get more characters like Haurchefant, who are there to support you when you really need it and don't place too much pressure on you. Or send you on missions to kill primals all the time, then call you every five minutes and tell you to come back to the Waking Sands / Rising Stones.

I wouldn't mind developing a closer friendship with Artoriel; he seems like a good enough character, though I don't want him to be Haurchefant 2.0. I'm kind of worried about Emmanellain, though. And while the Warrior of Light may not have considered Haurchefant a literal brother, it may have been the other way around. Brother / sister from another mother, y'know what I'm sayin'?

[Emmanellain]

Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

Well we know Haurchefant constantly blabbered on about the player to his family, but despite that i'm pretty sure Artoriel didn't know what kind of relationship the WoL had with Haurchefant. Artoriel himself did confirm that his relationship with his half brother was not a close one. Take that and the players reaction to his death into consideration and it's safe to say that Artoriel just figured you two were close in a sibling-kind-of-way. The idea that his bastard half brother might have been in a romantic relationship with the mighty warrior of light could be an idea so absurd that he probably didn't even consider it, seeing how station and birth is important in Ishgardian society.

[Tenkuu]

I agree with this. If fact Alphaunad's realization that the Warrior of Light is an actual person and not just a convenient implement of mass destruction in 3.0 is a large part of what has made me start to warm to his character. With most of the Scions regardless of how much I may like their character have never really felt like friends with the WoL. Allies yes, or coworkers perhaps but if the WoL suddenly lost a leg or the Echo tomorrow and was no longer able to fight, I don't feel they'd stand by them. Feel bad, sure. Send them a gift at Starlight, sure. Maybe drop by if they were in town and not too busy. Hauchefant on the other hand I feel would have done whatever he could have to help the WoL. While he certainly found the ability to fight primals . . . er . . . impressive, the sudden lack of that ability would not have changed his regard.

I strongly disagree with this. In the first place, Alphinaud and the first Scion you meet both talk to you and interact with you before you become someone meaningful to them, and both do so in a friendly manner and because they admire your character/personality. At this point you're only starting to make a name for yourself, and only by doing helpful little errands for people. You really haven't done anything special by the time of your first real battle which, in my case, was aided by Thancred against a voidsent. To Alphinaud, you're at best the newbie Scion who's wandering around wide-eyed listening to speeches from all three Grand Companies. You're invited to join the Scions because of your budding abilities, sure, but you are then trusted and confided in by Minfilia, Thancred, Moenbryda and Yda, at the least, and if you go in the storage room, the other minor Scions who happen to be there at the time all include you in their conversations as well.

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

Please don't demean my Scions. They do risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilia, but they also do so for one another. Their belief in the WoL is not empty hero worship, but rather comes from them witnessing the little miracles we've brought about, not the least of which involved saving the majority of their lives. To say that they have no personal attachment to us, in my opinion, is to greatly misunderstand them. Much as I love Haurchefant, our relationship with him was nowhere near as personal as the one we had with the Scions.

I've always felt that the surviving members of the Circle of Knowing share a comradery with each other that the other Scions are not a part of. This isn't actually a criticism of how the Scions have been portrayed given that even if you are a Legacy player you don't actually interact with them outside of "work" that much, so it is not surprising. I praise Hauchefant's character more since they managed to give him a more personal relationship with so little actual "screen time" when compared to the other characters.

This isn't all that true. Thancred and Minfilia have a relationship of siblings, and it's pretty obvious at several points throughout the MSQ that she's on his mind a lot. Other than that, when you've pretty much known each other and been working together for at least 15 years, you're obviously going to develop a certain closeness. More to the point though, the loss of Louisoix binds them all, and Minfilia, much closer together than those among the Path and Scions who barely knew him or even might have heard anything about him. This is something that's clearly shown from an early point to weigh on them, and particularly on Thancred, causing his lack of self-confidence and his need to overachieve.