The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[Emmanellain]

Gosh, that's kinda sad when you think about it.. Knowing that his memorial and the minion are both by house Hallienarte(granted the minion was crafted by the first born son). That means when his close childhood friend Francel was to pick a last name for Haurchefant's memorial. He basically picked Greystone instead of using Haurchefant's battle title (of the silver fuller) that he was known for and had fought for.
I mean it's a memorial so he didn't have to immortalize Haurchefant's bastard status, but the fact that it now is, is kinda sad.

[Morningstar1337]

Gosh, that's kinda sad when you think about it.. Knowing that his memorial and the minion are both by house Hallienarte(granted the minion was crafted by the first born son). That means when his close childhood friend Francel was to pick a last name for Haurchefant's memorial. He basically picked Greystone instead of using Haurchefant's battle title (of the silver fuller) that he was known for and had fought for.
I mean it's a memorial so he didn't have to immortalize Haurchefant's bastard status, but the fact that it now is, is kinda sad.

I would like to ask if we know anything about Ishgardian funereally laws. I want to see if there's anything requiring the use of the deceased name, bastard surname and all, on tombstones

[Emmanellain]

I would like to ask if we know anything about Ishgardian funereally laws. I want to see if there's anything requiring the use of the deceased name, bastard surname and all, on tombstones

Well what we do know is that his memorial by the lover's stone overlooking Ishgard isn't his actual grave, but a memorial commissioned by Francel. So it isn't his actual grave but a stone set in honor for him. My guess is that he's probably buried at a family burial site or near it. But that's all speculation on my part since we don't know where he's actually buried.

[Yuyuka3]

I was kind of surprised to see so much resistance to the idea that it was a bastard surname (to the point that, hey, maybe he had two battle titles and they nixed the surname on his public memorial in favor of the less popular one).

It's a core feature of Haurchefant's character that the most chivalrous member of House Fortemps was supposedly beneath its name. It's almost more offensive to raise him up after he's dead, isn't it? Treating him like he earned an upgraded name when in truth he humbled those who bear it? When it comes to what goes down in history, Haurchefant Greystone is an example that I wouldn't want diluted by a posthumous feel-good gesture.

If in-world logic isn't enough, though, let's come out-of-world for a minute.
Haurchefant needed a quick-but-meaningful backstory and they invoked Jon Snow.

I just want to clarify that I'm not saddened about the fact that he didn't receiven an 'upgrade' upon his death by being called a Fortemps or something like that.
I'm saddened that they make such a distinction as in giving him a very obviously non-Ishgardian name, so that it's quite obvious for everyone who ever met an Elezen that something's wrong with his family name. I would have been quite okay with him bearing an Elezen-like surname that could have also been argued to be his mother's. But, what they did is make it so obvious even an blind idiot can see it. I hope I explained it right, since I know that's not always my forte.
But, well. Being accepted into a family usually includes bearing that family's name.

I am, however, aware of where this comes from. I know about that naming convention for bastards in Game of Thrones, and I'm also very aware about where Martin got his inspiration from. 'Fitzroy' was already mentioned, but there is also a very real, and later on very powerful british noble house - the House Beaufort. They where illegitimate decendants of John of Gaunt, before being legitimized when he was actually able to marry their mother. Still, the fact remains that they where originally bastards, and surely suffered from that. So, yeah. I guess my main peeve is that society brands children for something they got no say in... until today, even if to a much lesser extend.

[myahele]

Yeah, I agree that the Devs did not see Haurchefant becoming as popular with the fans as he did in 3.0 (unlike Moenbryda et al)which is why he have many post-Heavensward development.

It's nice to know now that Ishgard, perhaps even Eorzea, has a GoT-style bastard last names.

[Yuyuka3]

It was a joke, sort of.

"The sickness must be purged!" is what Charibert keeps yelling in the Vault

I know. In the german (and japanese, at least what I understand in the voice over) client he rants about how we are all rats/vermin and have to be purged and all. Still, this is something that's just not funny for me. :\

I know...and this is basically what I hate about the current situation.

We just can't win, because:

a) Despite our best efforts, people will still act like (suicidal) idiots.

Just look at what happened with Teledji, Ilberd and the Holy See.
Even with our legendary status and (most importantly) our good intentions, people still think that getting rid of us is the best solution.

b) The Ascians (which we know nothing about, nor do we question about) still continue to pull the strings on everything, effectively being 2-3 steps ahead of us.

It's just...so easy to lose heart right now, and even makes you wonder if Eorzea (or even Hydaelyn itself) is worth saving at this point...

I agree that Heavensward is quite bleak and depressing. I felt that way from day one. The music, the storyline, the characters... However, I got the feeling that Square intends us to question if Hydaelyn really deserves to be saved. It's quite common in storytelling, I guess, to make the hero/player/both question if what they are doing actually makes sense...

Tbh I think it's awesome that they pay so much attention to the fanbase, I've never seen an MMO be as in tune with their audience and giving them what they want before or pay homage to popular NPC's as this one. It feels like a sincere apology from SE for killing off one of the players few genuine NPC friends. Many people i know find it suspicious as to why there's SO much content around him after he died, i mean christ most NPC's in Camp Dragonhead change dialogue several times depending on where you are in the MSQ after his death. Same with Francel and his presence by Haurchefant's monument after 3.1. Then there's all these Haurchefant items and the overall significance of his death in the MSQ and him being constantly mentioned and quoted. I doubt they'd bring him back as a primal or as an Ascian puppet (although i would find it insanely heart wrenching and interesting story wise, seeing how he can be used as a tool against the WoL) as they already have a script laid out and i bet they put all these things in for the fans since he's so popular with the JP, EU and NA fanbase.
I doubt we'll see more of Haurchefant in the future unless they pull an ixion or Ascian possession, so getting to say goodbye was nice. I was scared that he might get the Moenbryda treatment but i got pleasantly surprised.

It is, and I didn't see this in any MMO so far, either. It's pretty cool, really, all those small things here and there. And the portrait and all where implemented because fans demanded them, too, iirc. Would still prefer the guy to be alive, though. I, too, am sure they severely underestimated just how popular Haurchy grew with the fans.
And I'm not really sure if I could fight him should he really return as a Primal or Ascian puppet. Pretty sure it will rip me apart if that happens >.<
(Which, of course, would be the intended effect...)

[Alleo]

I like Artoriel too or at least he grew onto me a little bit but I really hope that they don't intend him to be Haurchefant 2.0 or someone similar..I am not sure why but it would really anger me..I am still after all this time not over the fact that they just killed off one of the only characters in the game that kinda saw us as a true friend or even more..maybe they realized after his death that a character like him is in a way necessary for the story to balance out all of this tragedy and sorrow but I don't want to have someone else like him at my side..I am really thankful that they gave us all these items and that they still included him in some way into the story but I really just want him back . But if they ever bring him back with the intend that we have to kill him again..well than I will just stop playing the story..I don't like too much tragedy and drama which is also the reason why I don't watch/read GoT.

In the end thanks to his death (and Ysayle´s) I barely care for any other character at all. Heck I barely care what will happen to Eorzea. I may overreact a little bit but I am just getting so tired about seeing my favorite characters die..Especially if they only die to create more drama...

Its just really nice to see so many comments about him and how many people cared for him. Even in my FC there are alot of people still really sad about it. Nice to see what a great character he was but at the same time his death showed me that I better not care much for other nice characters because it seems that these are the ones that get killed by SE..

[Anselmet]

I like Artoriel too or at least he grew onto me a little bit but I really hope that they don't intend him to be Haurchefant 2.0 or someone similar..I am not sure why but it would really anger me..I am still after all this time not over the fact that they just killed off one of the only characters in the game that kinda saw us as a true friend or even more..maybe they realized after his death that a character like him is in a way necessary for the story to balance out all of this tragedy and sorrow but I don't want to have someone else like him at my side..

I honestly do not think that Artoirel will become the new Haurchefant, but I do believe his character is attempting to be seen similar to Haurchefant. He feels extremely insincere to me. When he says things similar to Haurchefant in the cut scenes where his father or Emmanellain is around, note their reactions. When they are talking about storming the Vault, his comment makes his father look at him as if he questioning what Artoirel said. Emmanellain has a down right negative reaction with Artoirel quoting Haurchefant. It is confirmed that Artoirel and Haurchefant were not close, unlike his father and younger brother. There is obvious snubbing towards Artoirel which is pushing him to try and act like Haurchefant, which we can only assume is his attempt to gain his father's love. I believe that Count Edmont loved Haurchefant over his two legitimate sons and now that he is gone, Artoirel probably feels he can fill the void that Haurchefant has left. But his father is clearly not noticing Artoirel, no matter the fact that he has shown to be competent through the Vault and so far we know he is a responsible son, especially when compared to Emmanellain. Yet, despite the fact that he has shown himself capable, his father's love is directed once more away from him and onto Aymeric. His facade of being Haurchefant is not going to end up with him being Haurchefant 2.0, I think it is going to reveal more about the Fortemps and shed light into the family's miss comings at the least. At the most, Artoirel I think will use our trust in him to betray not only us, but his own father. The latter I am leaning towards. Think about it, what else would a son do in his position where he can't gain the love he wishes from his father. I think that will be the story and character development behind Artoirel.

[Dalvy]

I'll be honest and say I hope SE does not being our friend back in primal form. That would invalidate the drama of his death--let him rest and focus on the other Fortemps men.

Which is why I was glad to see Artoirel's personality take shape. He wants to aim higher for Aymeric and the Fortemps family's sake, whereas Emmanellain is stumbling so soon after saying he wanted to be admired just like Haurchefant. Meanwhile, Edmont seems to have written them both off in favor of a guy who's not even directly related.

More like this, please.

[Emmanellain]

I'll be honest and say I hope SE does not being our friend back in primal form. That would invalidate the drama of his death--let him rest and focus on the other Fortemps men.

Would it invalidate his death though? I mean we'd have an actual primal we would feel conflicted about putting down and it would be a smart move by the ascians since they're struggling in their fight against us. You'd have a primal that's more than just your typical Garuda, Titan, Ifrit ect. who are just sword fodder. Shiva was interesting and so was Ramuh since they were more complicated than just a standard primal. I mean I doubt SE would ever do it, but I don't see how it would invalidate his death considering he wouldn't be the Haurchefant we know but a mockery of his person, like Bahamut was according to Tiamat. In spirit Haurchefant would very much remain dead.