The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

[myahele]

Yeah, I agree that the Devs did not see Haurchefant becoming as popular with the fans as he did in 3.0 (unlike Moenbryda et al)which is why he have many post-Heavensward development.

It's nice to know now that Ishgard, perhaps even Eorzea, has a GoT-style bastard last names.

[Emmanellain]

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar.

That said, I do wish they'd stop laying him on quite so thick.

Tbh I think it's awesome that they pay so much attention to the fanbase, I've never seen an MMO be as in tune with their audience and giving them what they want before or pay homage to popular NPC's as this one. It feels like a sincere apology from SE for killing off one of the players few genuine NPC friends. Many people i know find it suspicious as to why there's SO much content around him after he died, i mean christ most NPC's in Camp Dragonhead change dialogue several times depending on where you are in the MSQ after his death. Same with Francel and his presence by Haurchefant's monument after 3.1. Then there's all these Haurchefant items and the overall significance of his death in the MSQ and him being constantly mentioned and quoted. I doubt they'd bring him back as a primal or as an Ascian puppet (although i would find it insanely heart wrenching and interesting story wise, seeing how he can be used as a tool against the WoL) as they already have a script laid out and i bet they put all these things in for the fans since he's so popular with the JP, EU and NA fanbase.
I doubt we'll see more of Haurchefant in the future unless they pull an ixion or Ascian possession, so getting to say goodbye was nice. I was scared that he might get the Moenbryda treatment but i got pleasantly surprised.

[Yuyuka3]

It was a joke, sort of.

"The sickness must be purged!" is what Charibert keeps yelling in the Vault

I know. In the german (and japanese, at least what I understand in the voice over) client he rants about how we are all rats/vermin and have to be purged and all. Still, this is something that's just not funny for me. :\

I know...and this is basically what I hate about the current situation.

We just can't win, because:

a) Despite our best efforts, people will still act like (suicidal) idiots.

Just look at what happened with Teledji, Ilberd and the Holy See.
Even with our legendary status and (most importantly) our good intentions, people still think that getting rid of us is the best solution.

b) The Ascians (which we know nothing about, nor do we question about) still continue to pull the strings on everything, effectively being 2-3 steps ahead of us.

It's just...so easy to lose heart right now, and even makes you wonder if Eorzea (or even Hydaelyn itself) is worth saving at this point...

I agree that Heavensward is quite bleak and depressing. I felt that way from day one. The music, the storyline, the characters... However, I got the feeling that Square intends us to question if Hydaelyn really deserves to be saved. It's quite common in storytelling, I guess, to make the hero/player/both question if what they are doing actually makes sense...

Tbh I think it's awesome that they pay so much attention to the fanbase, I've never seen an MMO be as in tune with their audience and giving them what they want before or pay homage to popular NPC's as this one. It feels like a sincere apology from SE for killing off one of the players few genuine NPC friends. Many people i know find it suspicious as to why there's SO much content around him after he died, i mean christ most NPC's in Camp Dragonhead change dialogue several times depending on where you are in the MSQ after his death. Same with Francel and his presence by Haurchefant's monument after 3.1. Then there's all these Haurchefant items and the overall significance of his death in the MSQ and him being constantly mentioned and quoted. I doubt they'd bring him back as a primal or as an Ascian puppet (although i would find it insanely heart wrenching and interesting story wise, seeing how he can be used as a tool against the WoL) as they already have a script laid out and i bet they put all these things in for the fans since he's so popular with the JP, EU and NA fanbase.
I doubt we'll see more of Haurchefant in the future unless they pull an ixion or Ascian possession, so getting to say goodbye was nice. I was scared that he might get the Moenbryda treatment but i got pleasantly surprised.

It is, and I didn't see this in any MMO so far, either. It's pretty cool, really, all those small things here and there. And the portrait and all where implemented because fans demanded them, too, iirc. Would still prefer the guy to be alive, though. I, too, am sure they severely underestimated just how popular Haurchy grew with the fans.
And I'm not really sure if I could fight him should he really return as a Primal or Ascian puppet. Pretty sure it will rip me apart if that happens >.<
(Which, of course, would be the intended effect...)

[Naria]

I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar.

I agree with this. If fact Alphaunad's realization that the Warrior of Light is an actual person and not just a convenient implement of mass destruction in 3.0 is a large part of what has made me start to warm to his character. With most of the Scions regardless of how much I may like their character have never really felt like friends with the WoL. Allies yes, or coworkers perhaps but if the WoL suddenly lost a leg or the Echo tomorrow and was no longer able to fight, I don't feel they'd stand by them. Feel bad, sure. Send them a gift at Starlight, sure. Maybe drop by if they were in town and not too busy. Hauchefant on the other hand I feel would have done whatever he could have to help the WoL. While he certainly found the ability to fight primals . . . er . . . impressive, the sudden lack of that ability would not have changed his regard.

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

I've always felt that the surviving members of the Circle of Knowing share a comradery with each other that the other Scions are not a part of. This isn't actually a criticism of how the Scions have been portrayed given that even if you are a Legacy player you don't actually interact with them outside of "work" that much, so it is not surprising. I praise Hauchefant's character more since they managed to give him a more personal relationship with so little actual "screen time" when compared to the other characters.

Still I feel the game is poorer without Hauchefant or a truly personal friendship for the WoL. Perhaps with his sibling declaration in 3.1 the WoL will start to have a closer friendship Artoriel. Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

[Cilia]

The Scions are perfectly willing to risk their lives for the WoL and Minfilla in 2.55, but I ultimately felt like it was more because they believed that was the best way to protect Hydaelyn. Hauchefant's sacrifice was only to protect the WoL for no other reason then he did not want a world without them in it.

...

Still I feel the game is poorer without Hauchefant or a truly personal friendship for the WoL. Perhaps with his sibling declaration in 3.1 the WoL will start to have a closer friendship Artoriel. Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

That's ultimately what it comes down to.

Minfilia, and by extension the rest of the Scions probably, used the rationale of "You are the Warrior of Light, Eorzea's hope!" to clarify why they were willing to sacrifice themselves to keep you safe.

Haurchefant just didn't want to see you get hurt because he cared about you. That's the kind of friend someone like the Warrior of Light needs, not someone who makes you shoulder the burden of being the hope of the world. Arguably that's why Alphinaud, Estinien, and Ysayle all become friends with the Warrior of Light to varying degrees - they treat you more like a person than a tool compared to how it was with the Scions' "Go kill this primal, Warrior of Light!"

Hopefully we do get more characters like Haurchefant, who are there to support you when you really need it and don't place too much pressure on you. Or send you on missions to kill primals all the time, then call you every five minutes and tell you to come back to the Waking Sands / Rising Stones.

I wouldn't mind developing a closer friendship with Artoriel; he seems like a good enough character, though I don't want him to be Haurchefant 2.0. I'm kind of worried about Emmanellain, though. And while the Warrior of Light may not have considered Haurchefant a literal brother, it may have been the other way around. Brother / sister from another mother, y'know what I'm sayin'?

[Alleo]

I like Artoriel too or at least he grew onto me a little bit but I really hope that they don't intend him to be Haurchefant 2.0 or someone similar..I am not sure why but it would really anger me..I am still after all this time not over the fact that they just killed off one of the only characters in the game that kinda saw us as a true friend or even more..maybe they realized after his death that a character like him is in a way necessary for the story to balance out all of this tragedy and sorrow but I don't want to have someone else like him at my side..I am really thankful that they gave us all these items and that they still included him in some way into the story but I really just want him back . But if they ever bring him back with the intend that we have to kill him again..well than I will just stop playing the story..I don't like too much tragedy and drama which is also the reason why I don't watch/read GoT.

In the end thanks to his death (and Ysayle´s) I barely care for any other character at all. Heck I barely care what will happen to Eorzea. I may overreact a little bit but I am just getting so tired about seeing my favorite characters die..Especially if they only die to create more drama...

Its just really nice to see so many comments about him and how many people cared for him. Even in my FC there are alot of people still really sad about it. Nice to see what a great character he was but at the same time his death showed me that I better not care much for other nice characters because it seems that these are the ones that get killed by SE..

[Emmanellain]

Was anyone else like. . . "er Artoriel, I really don't think your brother thought of me as a sister" in that scene? Maybe he just meant sister-in-arms?

Well we know Haurchefant constantly blabbered on about the player to his family, but despite that i'm pretty sure Artoriel didn't know what kind of relationship the WoL had with Haurchefant. Artoriel himself did confirm that his relationship with his half brother was not a close one. Take that and the players reaction to his death into consideration and it's safe to say that Artoriel just figured you two were close in a sibling-kind-of-way. The idea that his bastard half brother might have been in a romantic relationship with the mighty warrior of light could be an idea so absurd that he probably didn't even consider it, seeing how station and birth is important in Ishgardian society.

[Emmanellain]

I wouldn't mind developing a closer friendship with Artoriel; he seems like a good enough character, though I don't want him to be Haurchefant 2.0. I'm kind of worried about Emmanellain, though.[/size]

To be honest i got a suspicious vibe when i watched Artoriel through the 3.1 storyline, if you go and rewatch the cutscenes his father frowns at him when he speaks right before you enter the vault and Emmanellain who is usually very carefree and fun was absolutely livid at his brother by the end of the MSQ patch. My Fiance and i sat down a whole afternoon and watched the cutscenes from Heavensward with Artoriel in them and we found his new behavior odd, it kinda feels like he's acting a little like his half brother to become more likeable to the WoL in 3.1, although as someone have already stated this might just be character development on his part. But I don't know.. he was smirking when he left the room to go after the angry Emmanellain..

But aside from that there's definetly something wrong brewing in the Fortemps household, you have to wonder why Edmont didn't even lift a brow when his oldest son offered to put down his sword in the vault while his middle child is still "warm in his coffin" as Lucia says. Rather he frowns when Artoriel speaks up as if what he said was the stupidest thing he had ever heard. Then to follow it up by gushing over Aymeric when they get out with his "I see much of Haurchefant in you" while Artoriel is right there behind him.
I don't know man, It seems fishy!

[Dalvy]

I'll be honest and say I hope SE does not being our friend back in primal form. That would invalidate the drama of his death--let him rest and focus on the other Fortemps men.

Which is why I was glad to see Artoirel's personality take shape. He wants to aim higher for Aymeric and the Fortemps family's sake, whereas Emmanellain is stumbling so soon after saying he wanted to be admired just like Haurchefant. Meanwhile, Edmont seems to have written them both off in favor of a guy who's not even directly related.

More like this, please.

[Anselmet]

I like Artoriel too or at least he grew onto me a little bit but I really hope that they don't intend him to be Haurchefant 2.0 or someone similar..I am not sure why but it would really anger me..I am still after all this time not over the fact that they just killed off one of the only characters in the game that kinda saw us as a true friend or even more..maybe they realized after his death that a character like him is in a way necessary for the story to balance out all of this tragedy and sorrow but I don't want to have someone else like him at my side..

I honestly do not think that Artoirel will become the new Haurchefant, but I do believe his character is attempting to be seen similar to Haurchefant. He feels extremely insincere to me. When he says things similar to Haurchefant in the cut scenes where his father or Emmanellain is around, note their reactions. When they are talking about storming the Vault, his comment makes his father look at him as if he questioning what Artoirel said. Emmanellain has a down right negative reaction with Artoirel quoting Haurchefant. It is confirmed that Artoirel and Haurchefant were not close, unlike his father and younger brother. There is obvious snubbing towards Artoirel which is pushing him to try and act like Haurchefant, which we can only assume is his attempt to gain his father's love. I believe that Count Edmont loved Haurchefant over his two legitimate sons and now that he is gone, Artoirel probably feels he can fill the void that Haurchefant has left. But his father is clearly not noticing Artoirel, no matter the fact that he has shown to be competent through the Vault and so far we know he is a responsible son, especially when compared to Emmanellain. Yet, despite the fact that he has shown himself capable, his father's love is directed once more away from him and onto Aymeric. His facade of being Haurchefant is not going to end up with him being Haurchefant 2.0, I think it is going to reveal more about the Fortemps and shed light into the family's miss comings at the least. At the most, Artoirel I think will use our trust in him to betray not only us, but his own father. The latter I am leaning towards. Think about it, what else would a son do in his position where he can't gain the love he wishes from his father. I think that will be the story and character development behind Artoirel.