BRD and MCH support outside the progression

[Vlady]

MCH does particularly bad in roulette because of how it's designed. Boss invulnerability phases. Phase changes. Mobs dying too fast. The entire job is built around wildfire which doesn't work well in 4 man content

Would be nice if machinist could fire of wildfire early it's they know they won't make the timer for it to for off.

[myahele]

I'd say BRDs are more useful than MCH in DF mostly due to foes req. If you manage to team up with a smn/blm and a healer that likes to dps

[Viar]

Pretty sure Foe directly affects DRK's enmity generation in pulls. Unleash is insane.

Anyway, there are still way too many rangers who just don't want to play Foe.

[DarkmoonVael]

MCH does particularly bad in roulette because of how it's designed. Boss invulnerability phases. Phase changes. Mobs dying too fast. The entire job is built around wildfire which doesn't work well in 4 man content

The only boss in dungeons at the moment that wildfire is an issue with is the first one in Neverreap. Any other boss and any other pull a tank makes, wildfire is a non issue to a skilled machinist. If it is an issue, then that is entirely down to the players skill with the class and not the class itself. Mobs dying too fast made me giggle, as you obviously didn't read my previous post in this thread about machinist aoe dps in dungeons.
All in all, what your posts have described is a bad player playing machinist and not an issue with the class itself.

[Felessan]

A bad smn will do 750 for example.

Unfortunately no.
Just the other day saw a SMN who did run-wide average 500 dps. Melee with 400-500 dps are common too.

The only time that I groan is when its double MCH or MCH + BRD runs. Those seem to take a little longer than normal and that's just the nature of the beast when running with double support base classes.

If BRD and MCH both can pull 1k+ on bosses and 1.5k+ on trash pulls, run will be faster than any usual DF roulette, and those number are not that hard to achieve for both classes. Me with friends did some runs with WAR+WHM+BRD+MCH and they weren't slow by any means.

I'd say BRDs are more useful than MCH in DF mostly due to foes req. If you manage to team up with a smn/blm and a healer that likes to dps

99% of bards don't bother with Foe in roulette parties.