How would Red Mage fit in this game?

[Dorander]

Red Mage could easily be a melee dps. Skills like firestrike, icestrike, lightning strike, and wield a rapier and shield. Use MP and TP for it's abilities like Dark Knights, and it would wear armor like a dragoon (chainmail type armor) so it could "Oh crap the tank is died, melee dps tank it for a sec while I battle res the real tank." and have minor support abilities like a bard/machinist. Everything the 'jack of all trades' would cover but still fit into the holy trinity that we have.

[Laflama_Blanca]

I believe RDM would fit nicely as a healer in this game. This is probably not a popular opinion, but when you consider how tanks/dps/healers actually function in this game it makes the most sense.

RDM are a jack of all trades with a mix of black and white magic and a touch of melee, yes? In FFXIV DPS are always DPS. DPS checks in this game are too strict for a DPS job that isn't DPSing 100% of the time. Healers, on the other hand, are basically DPS that also heal. Good healers spend just as much time healing as DPSing, so in that sense RDM is a perfect fit.

In 4 man content a RDM will be just like the other healers. They can mix in plenty of flashy DPS attacks between needing to heal. Maybe a system where melee attacks are chained into magic attacks or larger heals. Obviously this would not be a good choice for healers who don't like DPSing in dungeons (shame on them anyway). For 8 man content I see RDM being used to support their partner healer with regens, shields and buffs, throwing in heals as needed. They would not have as great healing potential as a WHM, for instance, especially for AOE healing. But they will be very good as a 2nd healer and be able to deliver good DPS while they're at it.

I just don't see how RDM would work as a DPS job. How do you differentiate them from other DPS? When/why would they ever use white magic? And it's kind of the same with tanking. RDM was never about being a front line tank, they're just less squishy than their counterparts.

[Shurrikhan]

I believe RDM would fit nicely as a healer in this game. This is probably not a popular opinion, but when you consider how tanks/dps/healers actually function in this game it makes the most sense.

RDM are a jack of all trades with a mix of black and white magic and a touch of melee, yes? In FFXIV DPS are always DPS. DPS checks in this game are too strict for a DPS job that isn't DPSing 100% of the time. Healers, on the other hand, are basically DPS that also heal. Good healers spend just as much time healing as DPSing, so in that sense RDM is a perfect fit.

I just don't see how RDM would work as a DPS job. How do you differentiate them from other DPS? When/why would they ever use white magic? And it's kind of the same with tanking. RDM was never about being a front line tank, they're just less squishy than their counterparts.

First off, it'd probably be more in the NIN or Bard range of dps... there's a fair bit of separation there. As for the DPS dpsing at all times, well, let's consider:

When I save my Leg Sweep for a stun that could wreck a tank, am I healing, or DPS, or even support (given that the healer can now dps longer)? When I save a Blunt Arrow for an AoE that would force melee to run out, am I support, or DPS? It's not quite so black and white. Ultimately it's all of the above, which equates to 'once past (survival) threshold, dps'. If a RDM's white magic can ever be strong enough as to improve raid dps by its usage, then it contributes DPS.

(Granted, if balanced significantly around that, it will be niched out of or back from dps checks that have no (unavoidable/tanked) damage taken. That would indeed be a bummer, much like a healer competing against a caster to destroy a falling comet (with no raid damage from other ones reaching ground). One would hope the caster would win.)

You seem to have example solutions for a DPS being able to have a sizeable healing component (one capable of raising raid dps by its usage) right there (chaining melee attacks for bigger burstier heals/attacks). I'm not sure why you'd think it impossible. If you still think that it would be indifferentiable, though, let me just play the most simple form of devil's advocate -- how would RDM really stand out from other healers?

I'm not saying that it has to be one role or the other, only that the two roles need not be as cleanly split. Consider also: (and this is largely because every healer in this game is basically a dps with added healing abilities) any DPS can qualify a DPS as long as it provides an increase to raid dps (it has little personal requirements unless it needs to solo an add or is sent into quarantine, etc.); a healer, on the other hand, needs to meet a certain margin of output to be able to qualify or, in the end, just to keep a group alive. Ultimately though, I guess we're just whatever parts of our toolkits we can't use otherwise (Sentinel, Divine Seal, Raging Strikes...). Unless of course, some job wants to actually make every CD multi-use... : O