I don't want to tank dungeons anymore...

[Blood-Aki]

To be fair, I don't Swiftcast Stoneskin II, it's a basically just a waste of a cooldown to do so. I save Swiftcast for Aero III.

Hence why stoneskin is usually ignored, but i mentioned that combo due to how painfully slow stoneskin 2 is to cast, and no one will just wait there till you finish casting it, so swift is the only reasonable way to actually use it. but you use yours similair, expect i use it for holy due to the stun, since aero 3 is just a dot i can deal with hard casting it.

[MistakeNot]

Not that anyone other than the tank should be pulling, but is there an actual defense to making pulls far below the group's ability to handle? Slightly smaller pulls for safety concerns maybe, but 2-3 when the group can easily handle 5-6 I don't understand the reasoning behind it. It's inefficient, it's slow, and it voids the instance of any challenge at all. I haven't read through every post in this thread so maybe I've missed it, but is there a reason other than I'm the tank, I set the pace, if I want to pull slowly because I feel like it then that's what we're going to do?

Because sometimes the tank does not know the group can easily handle 5-6?
Besides, unless the group can do decent AoE damage it actually isn't any faster doing large pulls.

[SpookyGhost]

Pull ends -> Stoneskin tank -> Sprint.

[KingOfAbyss]

P1: Let's do it X way.
P2: Let's do it Y way.
P1: No, we're doing it X way.
P2: But I wanna do Y way.
P1: If you try it I'll leave and ruin the group.

Ok now I have a better grasp, thanks for clarifying ^^

yeah in that case, seems it's one way or the other. I've seen cases where the BLM left because it wasn't quick enough for him. next DPS came in, we cleared all, np, and.. we moved on.

What I feel is that unless SE do something about it, to split good vs bad, elite vs casuals, (the which won't ever happen?) we'll get some that will make the game enjoyable, and others, well.. that make us wants to leave and pray for a better group.

[NinjaDante]

As someone who has been tanking since ARR was released, I have dealt with all kinds of people, those who want to go fast, those who want to go slow, and those who are just plain impatient and or inconsiderate. Ultimately you can't make everyone happy, however what you can try to do is show consideration for others.

When I tank I like to do speed runs in most cases to save time. Some party compositions are not suited for big pulls, but rather chain pulls, it's all about reading the party, there is no 1 way that works best always as some have stated. However I will never force the group to do a big pull if the healer doesn't feel up to it. Same way if I were to be on healer or dps, if the tank isn't up to big pulls even if me and the others can and want to do it, it's not our right to force them to have a bad time.

People seem to think just because you have a majority opinion that you can bully someone to do what you want, this is absolutely disgusting. It's sad how few people these days have even the smallest amount of patience or consideration for other people.

After running hundreds(maybe thousands?) of dungeon runs on different jobs, I've kinda gotten over trying to make every dungeon run a speed run especially on leveling dungeons. I've gotten to the point I'd rather have a moderate speed dungeon run with no hiccups, and little room for error, than to push for a high speed run that has the potential to wipe parties in duty finder.

At the end of the day what really should matter is how people treat each other, not how fast or slow they are doing a dungeon run. Just try and have fun, and if you can't enjoy running a dungeon slow, don't queue in to duty finder and expect it to go your way every time.

I find it funny how not a single person who is calling people noobs or bad in here has even considered running these things with a group of friends or party finder. This way you can have your speed run without being a total jerk to everyone who doesn't meet your criteria. Maybe if you didn't lash out at every single person who had a contrary opinion, you could find people who would want to run things with you?

I think everyone needs to take a step back and think about how other people feel, and try to make an environment where everyone can have fun, not just how you can have fun or get what you want done.

[KingOfAbyss]

As a healer ive had the opposite issue with tanks that think they are gods gift to the world.

I just got my WHM to 52 ilvl 120. I am doing level 50 hardmode dungeons and nearly every tank I get insists on pulling the whole map. I announce at the start, First time, ilvl120.

Still get my ass chewed because they die in under 1 second. It's mostly down scaled DRK tanks that get killed. If its one of the other two tank jobs I can generally handle healing the big pulls.

But ya im sick of the lets go fast and pull the whole map when neither the tank or the rest of the group is up to it. Guess what level 60 DRK's with ilvl 180.... you get scaled down to 110 in those dungeons and lose critical skills you normally have at 60. The other 2 jobs can actually mitigate that damage and sustain.. you cant.

You are right saying we are synced down, but my GF WHM was able to heal my DRK.. thing is, I don't pull more than we can chew, her and myself combined.

But yead, DRK are Spikier than PLD a hundred miles away lol

So.. once again, sorry you had a Tank that thought Healers are gods

[Shihen]

It seems to me that your point of view is that the tank should conform to your way of thinking about how a tank should play.

You're inferring a lot from a few lines of text. You did provide some valid points that I didn't consider, so thank you for that. However, no one is imposing their view on how the tank should play when he is doing the best he can. The issue is that when it looks like the tank is not doing the best he can, the reason is not obvious to anyone other than the tank. One response might be to say that it's his character and not the party's problem, but when one person is making decisions for four, the other three have a right to give their input on it. Not comfortable with large pulls? That's fine, say that. But 'Well, I'm not telling you how to play, stop telling me how to play.' is not really an acceptable answer.

[Atoli]

Pretty sure the thread is still about people besides the tank pulling without communicating

Oh come on, nobody is even arguing that communication is better than doing a ninja pull on a tank -.-
That's not even worth debating over since everyone agrees on that since at least page 2. The interesting question is what to do when people don't communicate (which sadly is the norm in df). I don't expect everyone to read 28 pages of this debate, but come on, if you stroll in 28 pages later, at least notice that sometimes a discussion evolves. Saying "but communication is better" for the utmost time is just turning the topic again and again, back to an aspect that everyone obviously already agrees on.

I find big pulls boring as hell, because people do them so often that I can, in fact, do them in my sleep. Nothing wrong with you feeling that way, but trying to enforce that on everyone else simply because you feel it is the right way is actually no different from a tank deciding the pace for themselves.

Oh, yes. Sure. The meaning of the phrase "SOME OF US ENJOY xyz" totally means I'm enforcing my view on others
I'm not even gonna argue with people like you. You are hellbent on making me seem like the bad guy for simply stating the reason why SOME PEOPLE prefer bigger pulls, even if you have to take the quote completely out of context to make it fit.
I said from the beginning that it was a clarification about the speed topic, explaining that 1. SOME PEOPLE (yeah I'm totally speaking for everyone here, that's the definition of those words../sarcasm off) don't care about actual speed and 2. that what people usually dislike is wasting time when it would be faster to do big pulls, not when it's a waste of time because it's obviously going to result in a wipe because your tank is wearing ilvl 148 gear and doesn't have any of his job skills unlocked -.-

The view I actually AM enforcing is that the majority rules, which is a valid concept in real life. I'm ready and willing to go by ANY pace the party as a whole wants, but I'm NOT willing to just sit back and let the tank decide against the wishes of 3 other people. I don't need pf for that. If I meet 2 like-minded people in a dungeon, the fourth is supposed to accept the majority.
For example, when I'm in Preatoritum with 5 people who want to watch cutscenes, want to wait for everyone to be there before starting bossfights, etc., I WILL wait. Am I happy about the big amount of lost time? Of course not. But I'm in the minority who wants to speedrun it, so I just suck it up and don't go on the forums to create a thread "I don't wanna do dungeons anymore because others want a different pace from me..."

People seem to think just because you have a majority opinion that you can bully someone to do what you want, this is absolutely disgusting.

^This actually is what I am advertising, although I think it's childish to call it "getting bullied" when someone doesn't get special snowflake rights to do what he wants, even if it makes the run hell for everyone else but themselves.

Inb4 someone asks "But how do you know 2 others agree with you?":
I know my own stance on the topic. When one dps says "I'm not gonna attack unless you pull more than 2 monsters, tank" and the other is already off pulling the other monsters, I can safely assume 3 of us want bigger pulls.

Just try and have fun, and if you can't enjoy running a dungeon slow, don't queue in to duty finder and expect it to go your way every time.

If you don't enjoy going fast, don't queue in dungeon finder and expect it to be a slow run every time. Go with a group of friends that respect your pace

I think everyone needs to take a step back and think about how other people feel, and try to make an environment where everyone can have fun, not just how you can have fun or get what you want done.

The thing is, there IS no environment where everyone can have fun if the basic definition of "fun" is so different. What you can try to do is to let the biggest amount of people possible have fun ("the majority" you loathe so much) but there is just no way to make it fun for every single one if one person does not enjoy slow runs and one person does not enjoy fast runs.

[Shai]

Do you stop to cast Stoneskin on yourself between each pull?
Do you stop to talk to your friend or pet your cat IRL?

Speaking as a Healer, I'll pull if the tank stands there and does nothing or casts a spell no one needs.
I give you a good 15-20 seconds.

I love how your post is like "wah i want people to do dungeons my way" but you seem to pay no mind to how others want to do a dungeon.

Edit: Also not sure what crappy healers you're running with that can't tank a pull, or heal a DPS who pulls while you pout and sulk in a corner cause you didn't do your job quick enough so someone else who was bored did.

[Fenral]

Hoo boy...

The interesting question is what to do when people don't communicate
[...]
Oh, yes. Sure. The meaning of the phrase "SOME OF US ENJOY xyz" totally means I'm enforcing my view on others
[...]
The view I actually AM enforcing is that the majority rules, which is a valid concept in real life. I'm ready and willing to go by ANY pace the party as a whole wants, but I'm NOT willing to just sit back and let the tank decide against the wishes of 3 other people.

"I'm not forcing my views on others, but I am in the majority, and that means I'm always right." You're so blind to your own contradictions you basically negated your entire stance.

It is impossible to confirm that everyone in the party wants what you want when nobody communicates. Yes, I keep bringing that up, because so long as you cannot prove that the majority always tacitly desires big pulls, anything else you try to say on the matter is pointless and entirely off-topic. And frankly, nobody cares what happens between your thighs when the tank pulls big.

The tank is allowed to decide run speed in the absence of communication or consensus, because they're the only one who should be pulling. Ideally, the party moves at the speed all four of them can agree upon. If you refuse to take the time to work on that with your party, you are tacitly agreeing to whatever happens, slow or fast.