How do these changes fix the issues with Paladin?

[Freyyy]

If this change to Shield Swipe still requires an activator this is a direct downgrade to dps, enmity and utility.

I think you're not realizing that an oGCD cannot be a DPS loss ? Even if its potency was 1 it would still be an increase compared to what using it provides in 3.0, because it's changing from being on the GCD to being off the GCD, it's basically FREE DAMAGE. What's wrong with you guys not understanding that ? The fact that it requires an activator doesn't change anything and the activator required which is blocking is happening super often with a PLD. Sheltron gives you the possibility to at least get that Shield Swipe every 30 sec, you just need a random block in between these 30sec in order to have it almost on cooldown. That's a fucking good buff to the skill and an actual increase in DPS AND enmity generation for PLD, and it means that it will require less RoH to maintain aggro, thus leading into more DPS gain from having the possibility to use RA more.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I think you're not realizing that an oGCD cannot be a DPS loss ? Even if its potency was 1 it would still be an increase compared to what using it provides in 3.0, because it's changing from being on the GCD to being off the GCD, it's basically FREE DAMAGE. What's wrong with you guys not understanding that ? The fact that it requires an activator doesn't change anything and the activator required which is blocking is happening super often with a PLD. Sheltron gives you the possibility to at least get that Shield Swipe every 30 sec, you just need a random block in between these 30sec in order to have it almost on cooldown. That's a fucking good buff to the skill and an actual increase in DPS AND enmity generation for PLD, and it means that it will require less RoH to maintain aggro, thus leading into more DPS gain from having the possibility to use RA more.

'I'll post it here too, the changes to Shield Swipe should have been the beginning of the list of adjustments, not essentially the end of them. The people on this forum are throwing out ridiculous figures for the relative DPS adjustment that are just totally detached from reality. 5%? 7%? 9%? Really guys? Look up my A1S kill this last week on FFLogs and Reprisal on A1S, which was pushed every time it came up, on a boss with a physical auto-attack uptime of 100% every time they're on screen yielded 2.35% of my damage done. That's it. Shield Swipe in 3.1 used perfectly on cooldown, with a 0ms lapse between uses, is an increase over Reprisal of 90 potency. That's a nice, rounded 30% increase over Reprisal. Factor that into Reprisal's damage and you end up at just over 3%.

This is roughly a 3% damage increase, by the numbers. Stop making shit up.

EDIT: I should also note, that's a 3% increase, ONLY while main tanking, does nothing to solve the problems the job faces. It's something, but the job is still fundamentally broken in the current meta.' ---Kyne Lyons

I'm inclined to agree with him in that this is in no way as great a change as people are making it out to be and has actually changed the job for the worst. This is not enough from them to warrant this kind of praise in the slightest. You only focused on the DPS part of my statement as well....DPS certainly is an issue, but it's not the only issue Paladins face with having something like this changed. Pacification in dungeons was a good thing when you noticed your healer somewhat struggling to heal you, and that's gone now since it's a 15 second recast time. We've been waiting for over 4 months and THIS is the best they can do????? I'm growing increasingly tired of them forcing EITHER Dark Knight or Paladin to be main tank all the time every time. People should have at least some choice.

[Freyyy]

snip

I never said that it was a huge DPS increase, it's just a huge buff for the skill itself, and I never said that PLD didn't need any more changes. Yeah, its DPS will still be shite compared to the other tanks even after this change, but it will be LESS shite. It's an increase. What you were basically stating is that it was a loss, which is false. I also never said that PLD only needed tweaks on the DPS side of things. I just pointed out the mistake you made about judging the change to Shield Swipe as a DPS and enmity loss since it's obviously an increase in both domains.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I never said that it was a huge DPS increase, it's just a huge buff for the skill itself, and I never said that PLD didn't need any more changes. Yeah, its DPS will still be shite compared to the other tanks even after this change, but it will be LESS shite. It's an increase. What you were basically stating is that it was a loss, which is false. I also never said that PLD only needed tweaks on the DPS side of things. I just pointed out the mistake you made about judging the change to Shield Swipe as a DPS and enmity loss since it's obviously an increase in both domains.

I'm not willing to be as easily pleased as some people. This isn't good enough to settle down and forget Paladins being mocked since 2.1 in increasing frequency meanwhile the company doesn't give a shit to fix things for all jobs yet has the time to damned near perfect 3-4 of them. It's inexcusable and "slightly better" isn't slightly better to me. I'll admit that some of my statements are slightly erroneous but just saying 'hey it's slightly less than dog shit now' isn't something that should even be uttered from people's mouths.

[Freyyy]

I'm not willing to be as easily pleased as some people. This isn't good enough to settle down and forget Paladins being mocked since 2.1 in increasing frequency meanwhile the company doesn't give a shit to fix things for all jobs yet has the time to damned near perfect 3-4 of them. It's inexcusable and "slightly better" isn't slightly better to me. I'll admit that some of my statements are slightly erroneous but just saying 'hey it's slightly less than dog shit now' isn't something that should even be uttered from people's mouths.

I'm not saying that Paladins should be pleased with that. I'm just saying that the Shield Swipe change is a buff, that's all. Yeah they need more, a lot more, but it's not because they need more that this change is negative. It's still an increase in performance at some degree. Actually I think that tank changes are gonna come in 3.2. Yoshi stated in the last interview that he wants to alleviate the differences between tanks in terms of weaknesses and strengths in order to prevent one from being almost excluded from raid content like PLD is right now or like WAR was in 2.0. We also know that they want to change the encounter design, they'll also change the damage calculation for tanks, and the accessories are gonna be reworked (they said that the new raid and token accessories from 3.2 will be much more powerful than now). The meta might change a lot in 3.2, they can't do anything to change the meta in 3.1 because it doesn't bring a new raid tier, it just adds more side content to the already established 3.0 meta.

I don't know where you saw that PLD is being mocked since 2.1... Until 2.55 it was the most popular MT and everyone loved it. PLD's fall started with 3.0 and will hopefully for all PLD mains end in 3.2 with the release of the next raid tier.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Stuff.

I've already seen 2 FCs run Double Warrior through A4S and they kill it much faster than we do with DRK/WAR. So no, you're wrong. Like, very wrong. Do you expect MT Warriors to sit in Defiance all day or something? People who clear the content don't do this. On top of that, with Double Warrior you take a Monk for Dragon Kick, and most of the time Monks have higher DPS than a Ninja, or a Dragoon anyways. Yes, this is including Disembowel and Battle Litany.

Source:
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#boss=21
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#boss=20

^The fights where DPS is actually a concern. Please get out with anecdotal logic.

[Freyyy]

snip

Yeah you selected parses about the best MNKs, and I can tell you that the DRKs in these groups are pretty low. Look at what really good DRKs are doing http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#bos...pec=DarkKnight almost every A3S parses with real DRKs have the WAR being behind the DRK. You also don't seem to be taking into account the fact that in these parses, the WAR is OTing, thus doesn't need to activate his tanking stance as much as the DRK.

MNK may be the highest DPS right now but DRG and NIN both increase the DPS of everyone else in the party (DRG with Battle Litany + bringing Disembowel for the BRD/MCH, NIN with fucking Trick Attack which is awesomely awesome), and MNK utility is erased by the DRK which IS the highest MT DPS PERIOD. I hell know that a WAR isn't staying in Defiance while tanking, as much as a DRK isn't standing in Grit either. And Gritless DRK > Deliverance WAR in physical fights, that's also a known fact. The only fight where DRK isn't that high in MT DPS is A4S because there is nothing to parry except the adds. I can't believe there is still someone believing that WAR is above DRK while MTing.