Suggestion about Cleric Stance

[Fevelle]

The ability to stance dance is what make you a good healer... But I guess it doesn't matter anymore, right! Just dps without cleric stance if you can't. Stance dancing is not what prevent healer not doing dps though. It does prevent bad healer from doing good dps though :P

Yes it does. With the current attitude of the community, a lot of new players I know (some of them that I invited personally) feel discouraged to try and DPS because they could let the tank die.
And let's stop calling people 'bad', geez.

And be it said hereforth, that a new breed of healer be born unto the world. A healer unthinking, only caring about DPS. Honestly, this is what separates the good Healers from the bad healers.

Without this, why not every tank have one stance that is tank stance and DPS stance all in one? Don't forget Monk's Super stance Fists of Heaven now including Fire/Wind/Earth in a single super stance.

Not only that but SE made it so healing is reduced in Cleric so you can't lustrate in Cleric anymore. You missed the easy days of Scholar, my friend. I embraced the changes and enjoy switching a lot more. Brings more challenge to the game.

Please don't shy away from a learning experience. Don't shy away from challenges.

SE, please DO NOT do this.

Your way of looking into things is wrong, so let me explain.

Stances for MNK and Tanks in general are BONUSES - be it to enmity or damage - while our stance is a complete swap of attributes.

A MNK without any stance can still do damage, lower, but still damage.
A tank with Tanking stance can still do damage, lower, but still damage.
A tank with DPS stance can still generate aggro, lower, but still aggro.
A healer in Cleric Stance can't heal. And that's it.

Your view would be right if Cleric Stance was a 10% bonus to damage with a 20% healing reduction - not a complete change of main stats with healing reduction.

[Normalizer]

Yes it does. With the current attitude of the community, a lot of new players I know (some of them that I invited personally) feel discouraged to try and DPS because they could let the tank die.
And let's stop calling people 'bad', geez.

If they want to try they can always dps without stance dancing, even if it probably doesn't worth anything. Or just thinking in your head and practice not casting any heal in every 5 sec interval :P More of the time i feel like ppl sometimes just want an excuse for not trying though :| And let face it, with the current gear now your tank don't die that fast even on big pull unless your tank forgets his CDs.

[Fevelle]

If they want to try they can always dps without stance dancing, even if it probably doesn't worth anything. Or just thinking in your head and practice not casting any heal in every 5 sec interval :P More of the time i feel like ppl sometimes just want an excuse for not trying though :| And let face it, with the current gear now your tank don't die that fast even on big pull unless your tank forgets his CDs.

The gear doesn't matter, really. Content need to be balanced to the minimum ilv for it, not for overgeared people. Lack of confidence is no 'excuse', given the toxicity of the players on DF. Also, Cleric is eating up one WHM ability slot, so it's better gone than in.

I meant the tank gear not the healer gear. Tank won't die that fast.

Also I see you keep saying how toxic the ppl on DF is... If they want you not to dps, then just stick to heal, and don't dps, really, you might even get more commends that way. And if they want you dps, even if they die that is their fault for giving you a chance to practise, not yours. Beside, what friends are for then if you can't even give your friend some dungeons run to practice stance dancing :/

Even if SE makes this happen and you don't have to stance dance, I guess we will start seeing thread suggest "Healing spells should add dmg to random mobs" soon enough, sure because what if tank dies while you are mid-cast your dps spell!!!!

/sarcasm, but i'm out of here though.

Edit since I can't post anymore (20 posts rule).

It doesn't matter if you were talking about tank gear, like I said content is balanced having a party with the minimum iLV requirements: all of them, including the tank.

And yes, players tend to be toxic on DF: they often leave because a DPS die, leave because tank couldn't keep aggro on one pull for whatever reason, call people out for having one piece of equipment lower than expected. I lost count of how many times I entered 0/4 progress parties on Brayflox where people left for stupid, pitiful reasons.

If SE makes it happen, you will probably see healers DPS sky rocketing since we will be able to weave attack spells even on healing intensive fights with much more ease, and also new players being less defensive when it comes to DPS as healers. Also a replacement for WHM Cleric Stance to solve our utility problem, and one more free cross-class slot for AST and SCH. It's a win-win situation.

[Normalizer]

...

I meant the tank gear not the healer gear. Tank won't die that fast.

Also I see you keep saying how toxic the ppl on DF is... If they want you not to dps, then just stick to heal, and don't dps, really, you might even get more commends that way. And if they want you dps, even if they die that is their fault for giving you a chance to practise, not yours. Beside, what friends are for then if you can't even give your friend some dungeons run to practice stance dancing :/

Even if SE makes this happen and you don't have to stance dance, I guess we will start seeing thread suggest "Healing spells should add dmg to random mobs" soon enough, sure because what if tank dies while you are mid-cast your dps spell!!!!

/sarcasm, but i'm out of here though.

[FoxyAreku]

DPSing as a healer takes a 5 second commitment because of cleric stance and that is the reason the stance exists. They want that commitment to be there so I doubt it will ever go anywhere.

[Vlady]

DPSing as a healer takes a 5 second commitment because of cleric stance and that is the reason the stance exists. They want that commitment to be there so I doubt it will ever go anywhere.

Not entirely true for the scholar. If the pet also suffered the healing penalty in cleric stance it would be better balanced.

[BroodingFicus]

My one complaint with cleric is how finicky it can seem. I can't tell you how many times I'll hit it and due to some lag or who knows what it doesn't seem to turn off. So I hit it again and magically I pop out and right back in and get stuck waiting to be able to heal. So I never use it unless I'm 100% the tank is good /and/ benediction is up just in case I was wrong. And that is on trash. On bosses where party wide damage is more likely I almost never touch it. I don't feel like I can put that much faith in it working exactly as it should. It reminds me of Mudra lag when I played ninja. Seeing as its taking up a spot for WHM that could be used for something else I'd be ok with them taking it away.

[Telsyr]

How about letting us cross-class some AST skills instead? Lightspeed for everyone perhaps? >_>

Only if we get Convert as compensation. (They're both job skills so why not!)

My one complaint with cleric is how finicky it can seem. I can't tell you how many times I'll hit it and due to some lag or who knows what it doesn't seem to turn off. So I hit it again and magically I pop out and right back in and get stuck waiting to be able to heal.

This, the only change Cleric Stance needs is when the cooldown is applied, the CD should be applied when the buff falls off instead of when its first used to compensate for lag.
Cleric Stance doesn't add complexity regardless of what people say, its a fun ability to have and should remain fun to have and use.

[Entilper]

Cleric Stance

Pros: In some people's mind it's what makes a good healer, so that's what the skill is for, if I can see someone doing it properly means he/she is a good healer despite of anything else.

Cons: Waste one skill, can imply to mistakes some times in the urge of the moment when someone screw up and you still have to get off it, dps and heals cannot intercalate cuz no healer changes attributes after one spell and waste of time changing it.

If anyone wanna point more pros at this indispensable and really productive healer's skill, I'm at your service.

[Mutemutt]

No thanks. The only thing remotely interesting about healer dps is that you have to give up healing to do it.

Though, to be honest, I rather they move away from healer dps for the light/full party content.