Can square enix just put Str and Vit on fending gear?

[Almalexia]

You kinda should have the option to go offensive or defensive.

In a different kind of game, I would agree with you - but FFXIV has never been about flexibility. FFXIV is about a clear, unambiguous ideal we can realize and approach through rigorous measurement.

Content is designed with the following in mind: a minimum number of GCDs executed in a certain period of time with minimum player parameters. Once a group reaches the minimum HP parameter and the minimum healing parameter, the remaining parameter is the so-called DPS check. Superfluous healing and HP have no benefit so increased DPS is the logical choice; the most effective approach has been to outfit tanks with STR gear.

Experience reveals the minimum healing/HP parameters are low while DPS parameters are very high, so by the game's own design Fending gear is inherently less valuable than Slaying.

You could say superfluous HP/healing are training wheels and the transition to DPS gear is the mark of a PT ready to clear. This is not a very compelling choice, though. Tanks can go into content with DPS gear and clear it with the bar set that high from the start. You'll probably have an easier time clearing, since healers can tune their GCDs with tank HP X in mind.

So at worst you have completely useless endgame gear that clogs your drop pool, and at best you have endgame gear with an even shorter life cycle than the ilvl table it's part of.

[Azazua_azura]

You can have str on your vit gear in 3.2
Or Vit on your Str gear

their makinhg it so you can't penta meld 1 stat like full str on vit or full vit on str only the sloted parts canb have these stats after that they don't count.


@ thread

i agree with this depending the changes in 3.2 with the above i think a mix of both, just male fending gear tank only vs "all classes" tanks are the only role that rely on 2 stats. Str and Vit. They need to output dmg as well as intake dmg. other classes don't need this and rely on 1 stats to do their roll. Unless SE changes vit to be tank dmg modifier, then thats what it needed to happen.

[Dante_V]

Tanks dont really have a "choice" as they will be forced by the Content and/or the Community to take a certain path just like the current situation.
Vit would be more relevant if it raises your pDef and mDef, then you would have a real choice between Def or Offense Tank.
And people dont buy Pentamelded fending gear because of the option to do so, its just they to go if you want to be viable at the current End Content and either go slaying or fending doesnt give you the benefits a pentamelded acc give.

I absolutely do have a choice. I choose different setups depending on the needs and vit necessity of the fight. When learning I lean towards higher vit, after clearing and learning i genrally go towards slaying/penta. Once we get it down enough I push it with as much vit as I can. At this point the dps are geared enough for me to go 100% vit if I wanted to. The only time when there is no choice is on the bleeding edge of content and we are well passed that at this point. when we were going for the first week clear of A1S I absolutely went with the penta set.

And honestly raising Pdef and Mdef would literally have no affect on vit. The HP meta is the only reason it's relevant. After accounting for the tank buster and preceding auto attacks, str will always out value defense from a raid perspective unless the damage of the fights are severely ramped up.

[SchalaZeal]

Even with full STR, the best tank in the game isn't doing the same damage as a DPS unless the DPS is bad. A full STR tank can do about 75-80% of a DPS's DPS if both are going full HAM.

I'm i197 Summoner, and my friend i203 WAR, in dps stance, can do as much as me single target in Fractal (900-1000 dps on bosses). Sure on aoe they lose out (do 600 to my 2200), and Summoner isn't that great single target, but yeah WAR can still 'replace' a Summoner in fights where Summoner isn't aoeing. Haven't seen a Scholar pushing 1000 dps yet.

[SchalaZeal]

Tanks can go into content with DPS gear and clear it with the bar set that high from the start. You'll probably have an easier time clearing, since healers can tune their GCDs with tank HP X in mind.

But the tank will have say, i210 leftside avg going into content dropping i240 leftside, their HP would be X-3k maybe, so not enough initially. Like for example, going into 3.2, supposing people go outright with their i210 avg gear, without getting crafted or tome stuff first, their HP would be much lower than it'll eventually be with better weapon/body/legs and other leftside parts, even if they never get VIT on accessories

[Freyyy]

I'm i197 Summoner, and my friend i203 WAR, in dps stance, can do as much as me single target in Fractal (900-1000 dps on bosses). Sure on aoe they lose out (do 600 to my 2200), and Summoner isn't that great single target, but yeah WAR can still 'replace' a Summoner in fights where Summoner isn't aoeing. Haven't seen a Scholar pushing 1000 dps yet.

I'm sorry to tell you that you're bad at SMN. At i197 you should do above 1200-1300 DPS on single target bosses. And on AoE your WAR is bad, 600 is the AoE DPS of a PLD using Flash, Circle of Scorn and some Goring Blade combos while in Shield Oath. A WAR can pull above 2200 in a short AoE fight, and I will grant you that this is super high for a tank, but for sustained AoE fights like A2S, they balance out and go back to less DPS than a DPS's DPS (that's a lot of DPS).

[SchalaZeal]

I'm sorry to tell you that you're bad at SMN. At i197 you should do above 1200-1300 DPS on single target bosses.

Only seen a Dragoon going above 1150 (also, a higher than i200 DRG). My top has been 1050 on the Curator. I never did Savage so I don't have numbers, but the Oppressor having 2 means a lot more dps on Summoner (dots running on both at once). I saw a Summoner geared with the exact same HP as me when I was at i193. And they did worse than me. Never seen a BLM top my single either. I know it's possible to hit it, but I doubt below 1200 single target is bad.

Also the WAR in question can't do super dps when he pulls 15 mobs, if he wants to keep enmity on them. Or I'll pull half of them without trying and we wipe.

[Ryios]

Is it a enmity issue? Why do tanks need to do dmg? Losing agro?

I haven't done any of the new primals or raids yet since I hit 60, but I was holding off geared DPS in a dungeon just fine.

Or is it that boss fights are so tightly balanced you need the tank dmg to kill it?

[SchalaZeal]

A WAR can pull above 2200 in a short AoE fight, and I will grant you that this is super high for a tank, but for sustained AoE fights like A2S, they balance out and go back to less DPS than a DPS's DPS (that's a lot of DPS).

In Fractal I can do 2800 aoe dps. But if I was Baning a Vulnerability debuff, I could probably hit 4000 or something. You can't count stuff that basically overmultiplies damage in a specific fight.

[Acyd]

Only seen a Dragoon going above 1150 (also, a higher than i200 DRG). My top has been 1050 on the Curator. I never did Savage so I don't have numbers, but the Oppressor having 2 means a lot more dps on Summoner (dots running on both at once). I saw a Summoner geared with the exact same HP as me when I was at i193. And they did worse than me. Never seen a BLM top my single either. I know it's possible to hit it, but I doubt below 1200 single target is bad.

Also the WAR in question can't do super dps when he pulls 15 mobs, if he wants to keep enmity on them. Or I'll pull half of them without trying and we wipe.

Man, with 15 mobs the DPS i can do as WAR is insane, while i hold aggro on EVERYTHING. Sounds like he needs a bit of training.