Can square enix just put Str and Vit on fending gear?

[Acyd]

Only seen a Dragoon going above 1150 (also, a higher than i200 DRG). My top has been 1050 on the Curator. I never did Savage so I don't have numbers, but the Oppressor having 2 means a lot more dps on Summoner (dots running on both at once). I saw a Summoner geared with the exact same HP as me when I was at i193. And they did worse than me. Never seen a BLM top my single either. I know it's possible to hit it, but I doubt below 1200 single target is bad.

Also the WAR in question can't do super dps when he pulls 15 mobs, if he wants to keep enmity on them. Or I'll pull half of them without trying and we wipe.

Man, with 15 mobs the DPS i can do as WAR is insane, while i hold aggro on EVERYTHING. Sounds like he needs a bit of training.

[Freyyy]

snip

Okay, you're basing your sources for talking about job balance on the forum on expert dungeon experiences. Know that DF people and people that are not invested into hardcore content in general are very rarely pushing their job to the maximum. You may be thinking that you're playing SMN perfectly, but at i197, if you're only doing 1050 DPS at maximum, you're really lacking something. Same goes for that DRG just going above 1150. DRG just wrecks shit, in a 1min30 dummy fight like Curator, my statics DRG is still above 1600.
And for the WAR, I play WAR at 60 and almost always run my expert dungeons with it, I pull shitton of mobs and have no problems holding agro with my statics BLM doing full banana sandwich DPS, above 3000 burst AoE DPS while myself doing above 2300 in Deliverance and the healer Holybombing.

You're just not playing your job at maximum, even if you think so, and that's not a problem since you're not TERRIBAD either (I've seriously seen some DPS doing below 600 single target on bosses in experts), and you seem to be still enjoying the game (and that's what playing a game is all about). But when it comes to arguing over job balance, you can't just speak without complete knowledge of what jobs can do when played at 100% of their capacities.

Edit :

Is it a enmity issue? Why do tanks need to do dmg? Losing agro?

I haven't done any of the new primals or raids yet since I hit 60, but I was holding off geared DPS in a dungeon just fine.

Or is it that boss fights are so tightly balanced you need the tank dmg to kill it?

High tank damage are required in order to kill end-game raid bosses. A tank also gains more personnal benefits from increasing his STR than his VIT. VIT is only useful if you absolutely need more HP in order to survive a single attack that would one shot you otherwise (tankbusters). STR gives you more damage, and by so, gives you more healing via lifestealing abilities (Inner Beast, Bloodbath, lolStorm's Path, Souleater), and also increases the effectiveness of every self-healing moves tanks have access to (Equilibrium, Second Wind, lolClemency). It means that you gain an indirect form of sustained mitigation from STR while gaining absolutely no mitigation from VIT. You're also killing the boss faster, thus making the fight easier on the healer with more efficiency than having more HP for them to heal. That's why when gearing a tank, we do : HP till we have enough to survive -> the rest goes in STR. And currently, the HP needed to survive the most hard hitting encounters are so low that we can tank them with full STR gear.

[SchalaZeal]

Tanks can go into content with DPS gear and clear it with the bar set that high from the start. You'll probably have an easier time clearing, since healers can tune their GCDs with tank HP X in mind.

But the tank will have say, i210 leftside avg going into content dropping i240 leftside, their HP would be X-3k maybe, so not enough initially. Like for example, going into 3.2, supposing people go outright with their i210 avg gear, without getting crafted or tome stuff first, their HP would be much lower than it'll eventually be with better weapon/body/legs and other leftside parts, even if they never get VIT on accessories

[Ryios]

Is it a enmity issue? Why do tanks need to do dmg? Losing agro?

I haven't done any of the new primals or raids yet since I hit 60, but I was holding off geared DPS in a dungeon just fine.

Or is it that boss fights are so tightly balanced you need the tank dmg to kill it?

[Evangela]

Is it a enmity issue? Why do tanks need to do dmg? Losing agro?

I haven't done any of the new primals or raids yet since I hit 60, but I was holding off geared DPS in a dungeon just fine.

Or is it that boss fights are so tightly balanced you need the tank dmg to kill it?

1. To clear the content a little faster.

2. To look cool. <--- most popular reason

[SchalaZeal]

Same goes for that DRG just going above 1150. DRG just wrecks shit, in a 1min30 dummy fight like Curator, my statics DRG is still above 1600.

Wouldn't that Dragoon still be able to clear A3S while doing a meaningful share of dps, with 1600 being top-of-the-world-firsters able-to-do-it-in-185 compared to others doing it in i205?

I doubt you need to be in the top 0.1% of dpsers to pass dps checks, I would think people mess up mechanics (and then die) more than dps rotations at this point. But at i185, most people in Savage didn't have the gear, or skill to compensate for the gear.

Like the day I see a BLM do 3000 dps on anything except the small pull after the Minotaur (where I do 2700 by using mainly Blizzard II on SMN), is the day I meet a unicorn in real life.

It's like in the time of first coil, I had a semi static (people didn't always show up, had to pug some) for T1-4. And some top tier groups cleared T4 with so much ease that I only had after we got that echo buff in 2.2. But we still did clear T4 in 2.0 and 2.1, just with difficulty and lots of wipes.

I imagine it's similar to your top-of-the-charts dps in your static, vs other savage statics that don't do leader boards, but can still eventually clear A3S (or are on their way to do so).

[Freyyy]

snip

I'll just answer to you that "top DPS" is needed in order to kill Alex Savage. The numbers you claim seeing on dungeon fights are not high enough to meet enrage on a Savage fight. That's a fact. Alex Savage has nothing to do with old coils in terms of difficulty, and most of this difficulty comes from the very harsh DPS checks. That's the reason why the clear rate is that low.

[Canadane]

As it stands, tanks have the only slightly interesting gear design, where they can pick and choose what works best for the situation, themselves, their party, or whatever the case may be.
While everyone else is more or less told by the game what to wear. Bigger number? Put it on.