JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[Whiteroom]

welp there it is folks.
the perfect example xD

I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

coming from the person who helps create them:

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content.

Thank you

Well, I see a fair number of run sellers on my server who randomly join PFs to help. Hell the biggest one I know will join lots and I've even seen them call out party leaders for kicking someone rather than helping. So it's not like all sellers are out there creating bad players in droves. I'm fairly certian that the run buyers make up a very small portion of the bad players. Hell buying a run doesn't even mean the player is a bad player.

I would say the biggest problem with run selling does't even have anything to do with topic, or at least less, and thats those buying gil to pay for it.

[Nestama]

I see nothing in your post that could possibly be construed as a comment intended to actually discuss the topic at hand, and instead appears to simply be part of the problem that some would like to see fixed. As I stated before, this isn't an argument over whose time is more valuable. A person who has a couple hours a night to play should use their time in-game as efficiently as one who has 8-12 hours a day to play. If that means they simply don't have time to fit in the video that you state is 10 minutes vs wiping for an hour, then that's the hand they're dealt. It looks like you're trying to connect going in blind to NM Alexander, which is almost faceroll at this point, to doing the same in Savage, which would result in hours of wiping. The two are separate. I believe it's this exact state of mind that is the basis for why we have this rhetoric of "No exp? Git Gud" but can't "Git Gud" because they can't get experience.

If all you're trying to do is attack, please move along.

1-2 hours is plenty of time to read tool-tips, though. Especially if waiting for Duty Finder to pop (you edited your post when I posted mine, so I haven't read anything else yet).

[Ashkendor]

well.... if you want your community to be better.
Then the responsibility is on everyone in that community to be willing to teach and learn.
If we all keep the mentality "it ain't my job, let someone else do it" then yea........
change the "ME! ME! ME!" attitude to "WE! WE! WE!"

That's the key there. There's selfishness and bad attitudes on both sides. If people are that interested in clearing content, they really need to do some footwork of their own instead of leaving it all to the rest of the party to tell them what to do. They need to be proficient in the class they want to play as well as have at least a basic idea what's going to happen in the content. One person going in completely blind has the potential to be an enormous setback for the other seven people even if it's a learning party. It's a selfish thing to do. The very least you can do is read/watch a guide. On the other side of things, yes there are situations where people are rigid in their expectations for other players. If someone has done their research and is giving an honest try, I have absolutely no problem with wiping a few times while they get a handle on a tricky mechanic as long as the party is making progress.

I actually really enjoy going into content with people to help them learn. I've done tons of it and will probably keep on doing tons more because first clears are just fun to be part of. But seriously, if the party says "farm," don't try to ninja into it. It's rude. :c

Too much NIMBY.

Take my like for this reference. Even though it makes me feel old. xD

[hagare]

Well, I see a fair number of run sellers on my server who randomly join PFs to help. Hell the biggest one I know will join lots and I've even seen them call out party leaders for kicking someone rather than helping. So it's not like all sellers are out there creating bad players in droves. I'm fairly certian that the run buyers make up a very small portion of the bad players. Hell buying a run doesn't even mean the player is a bad player.

I would say the biggest problem with run selling does't even have anything to do with topic, or at least less, and thats those buying gil to pay for it.

maybe because run selling is seasonal.

[Nadirah]

well.... if you want your community to be better.
Then the responsibility is on everyone in that community to be willing to teach and learn.
If we all keep the mentality "it ain't my job, let someone else do it" then yea........
change the "ME! ME! ME!" attitude to "WE! WE! WE!"

This, basically.

Not the community job to carry, no, but we sure aren't fostering those that do try or want to try.

Too much NIMBY.

[Miyu20]

Then make a PF where it openly says "Learning Party" and click the Newcomers Welcome and Click the Slow and Steady and if you're aware of the fight or have cleared, maybe try helping out people once in a while.

Not because it is your responsibility, not because it is your job but just to be altruistic. Especially if your server is not one of the big legacy servers or high populated servers, even more so. Everyone knows everyone. IN that case, you know who the ones are who don't want to learn and everyone else that you don't know should be treated with respect and unless they lash out, you should be patient with them as you teach them the content.

If more people on these smaller servers are not more altruistic taking time out of their busy game day to teach others, those on that server will never grow/learn unless they find a static. That is what Arthas was saying and I agree. Conversely, if they are treating you like shit when they are trying to teach you, you can remember that for next time. You don't have to teach for them the next time. But I believe if you really care about your server, you would maybe take an hour and a half of your time and try and teach new people how to do content. I'm not saying Carry...I'm not saying clear...I'm saying just help people get practice.

Just an hour ago, I finished hosting a party for A1S Learning and I stipulated in PF that it's a learning party and people came and learned. I had to do a lot of typing but that's fine. I taught. Everyone was appreciative and it made me believe there are kind people. It's the bitter "Clear Parties, no noob, watch video" PFs that encourage you to know the fight that are the problem. If your server has more Clear Party PFs then Learning Party PFs, there is a problem. Maybe instead of joining the clear party PFs, make or join a learning party one. It would help out your server and you could make new friends too.

I don't know...maybe I'm just too nice but it is possible not to generalize about entire populations of people and just try to help. Don't get discouraged...I'll shut up now..v.v

[zosia]

People still don't get the point.

You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.

You can talk all day about whose responsibility it is and all this other BS but if the players have a mindset that prevents them from learning, it's all useless rhetoric.

This right here. This is the entire thread. Check mate here!

If you want to improve, do well, and try harder content, you will find a way. Friends, FCs, LS, and PF all serve as ways to network. We all started somewhere in this game, but I can say with certainty that no one started at max level with the hardest content down. It's a process. A lot of people just don't care / are lazy / think their special / etc to go through the work before wasting other people's time.

[Klamor]

1-2 hours is plenty of time to read tool-tips, though. Especially if waiting for Duty Finder to pop (you edited your post when I posted mine, so I haven't read anything else yet).

You've got me on this one. I've seen it too many times to count as well. I think I made a grouping for those players, but we don't normally see them trying to get into Savage groups. I keep mentioning Savage because it seems like this is the only content where players are actually concerned about whether or not they have enough friends to complete it on a given night, or regular schedule. I'd like to see that mindset shift into the lower tiers of content as well... that need or desire to have friends to just complete content with, regardless of it's Savage, or daily hunts.

[Lewtskie]

well.... if you want your community to be better.
Then the responsibility is on everyone in that community to be willing to teach and learn.
If we all keep the mentality "it ain't my job, let someone else do it" then yea........
change the "ME! ME! ME!" attitude to "WE! WE! WE!"

Why is one extreme good and the other bad? No offense, but that's just as ignorant. Are you to say that one should never put any time to improving themselves and only improve everyone else? Am I to rely on someone else to help me improve? When it's about yourself, there is only yourself. When it's about everyone else, then you have a couple hundred, to a thousand, to a million. Who's turn is it to get the help to improve? Obviously I couldn't do it myself since I'm always having to help someone else improve. So do I have to take a ticket? Get in a line?

[Whiteroom]

I see nothing in your post that could possibly be construed as a comment intended to actually discuss the topic at hand, and instead appears to simply be part of the problem that some would like to see fixed. As I stated before, this isn't an argument over whose time is more valuable. A person who has a couple hours a night to play should use their time in-game as efficiently as one who has 8-12 hours a day to play. If that means they simply don't have time to fit in the video that you state is 10 minutes vs wiping for an hour...

If all you're trying to do is attack, please move along.

Actually, the "whos time is more valuble" is one of the core issues with why the community is this way. That you are unable to see it, or take offense to it, is well, on you. Until people can admit those who expect others to do all the work for them are the biggest part of the problem, it wont change. So you can talk rainbows and butterflies all day, but until players take more ownership on themselves, instead of putting it on "endgamers", nothing will change. You prepare for the team content you join and do what you can to help, or you don't and make the rest of the team compensate for you.

Also, telling someone who disagrees with you on an open forum to move along...