JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[hagare]

The feed a man a fish phrase would be more appropriate for just carrying someone.

which is exactly what run selling is?
Run selling does add to the problem.
By giving people a pass without having to learn anything.

Selling raid learning party would probably be more acceptable.
Like driving courses.

[Malevicton]

which is exactly what run selling is?

Not really. Run selling would just be selling someone a fish. Which is a pretty common thing.

It's also not really exclusive from giving a man a fish or teaching a man to fish.

[Laerune]

I agree 100% with the JP server player. I dislike it when they say "You need to have experienced a fight to join our group" But how can one experience a fight, if they arent allowed to join in the first place. If this were few groups doing it, then there would not be any issue, but sadly MAJORIY are starting to doing this and its hurting our endgame environment.

Let newcomers join and let them make mistakes, just like in real life. Most of the time, they will learn and become a asset to your group, but also to the rest of the community.

[DragonSlayer45]

He's not wrong. To be honest, its about time someone said it. He made some brilliant points about the difference in PUG content on NA and JP servers, its a night and day difference.

Unfortunately, it won't ever change. Its not like you can change an entire culture or community of people overnight.

[raymon]

This is part of the problem with NA servers. People who legitimately are so delusional they believe this BS.

Yea, "reading" a guide doesn't help you... when you don't know how to read. When I used to lead a static on Gilga, we would watch videos and it would always astound me how little people absorbed from what they watched. It was in one ear, out the other.

Learn how to properly analyze a fight. Then, watching videos might be helpful to you. Don't just disregard an incredibly important part of the learning process because you don't know how to utilize it effectively.

they point is your not gonna get a run perfectly just because you did research on the dungeon run. you get what you need to do and even how to do it. do you honestly think analyzing a fight via video will let you preform just as good if not better then the person whom video you watched?

[Nadirah]

I'm going to say that it's because, while it was your first time, you should have read about and watched the strategy online first, and thus should have familiar with how the fight was supposed to go. Under this assumption, you wouldn't have had legitimate reason to make such a mistake, first time or no.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with this mindset, but there it is. That's where this community is at now. :/

First strategy videos often use ridiculously stupid strategies and then everyone insists on doing it the hard way.

Like Ravana. Putting both healers in the same quad often ends up with people on the other side of the room dying or dead, and even bringing up moving a healer there gets people braying about the video start being best for everything and sheep insisting that you do it exactly how the first people did, even if its not optimal.

[Velox]

They are zero fun compared to what they used to be, or any other current genre. You are wasting your time still playing them in this state.

Someone call the "Subjective" police. I'm personally having a load of fun. I guess that just makes me better than you. :P

[Klamor]

To go along with the "they refuse to learn" topic, there are tons of people out there that don't have the time to spare in their lives to read forums on their job, to learn the optimal rotation, test it out on the dummies, etc... I'm obviously not one of them; I spent way too much time on these forums, though I generally don't feel the need to type a reply.

My point is, I'm curious how the difference in living conditions or whatever it is that explains how JPs goes about their business that differs from NA/EU. This might shed quite a bit of light on the issue of the mentality differences on each side of the Pacific. I'm not trying to say that Asians live for pro-gaming or anything; I only can really speak for the generality of the American cultures. Really you've got a couple, or a few, or actually a handful, groups of people.

1) People who work too much and don't have much time to devote to the nuances of the game
2) People who don't work, and play more than enough to read through all material and are generally good enough to clear the highest content
3) People who both work and play at relatively equal amounts; putting forth proper effort in their lives to accomplish the goal at hand, whatever that might be
4) People who simply don't put forth any more effort than is required to achieve a standard level goal (read: level-cap and experts)
5) People who don't fall in any above grouping

I can probably safely assume that here in America we have a large hodgepodge of all of those groups above playing the same game on the same servers, and trying to get into the same groups. Obviously a lot of those people will fall short, simply by the merit of themselves. The ones who do actually make it into your PF in an attempt to clear content such as Savage could be in any of those categories. This is where I must say that I agree that we should all have a teaching mentality. Some will probably recognize me as one with a short fuse, and even shorter patience. I still prefer to teach first, and I know there are those who can back that statement up. The problem lies in how do we do this? How do we recognize what category a new person is in? For starters, we can't. And it's obvious that you'll most often find someone who simply doesn't meet the personal requirements to fit your particular PF, which I can understand (as a low patience person) why so many groups are so reluctant to accept new players for any of the truly serious content (Savage).

So, where or how does the JP community differ here? Do they have more of their player base in categories 2 and 3 above? Is it an abnormal thing in Japan for everyone and their mother to just want to "play a game with their friends" instead of striving for the highest content? These are a couple questions that probably need to be answered before we as a community can even start to make changes.

[Whiteroom]

To go along with the "they refuse to learn" topic, there are tons of people out there that don't have the time to spare in their lives to read forums on their job, to learn the optimal rotation, test it out on the dummies, etc... I'm obviously not one of them; I spent way too much time on these forums, though I generally don't feel the need to type a reply.

So, since they don't have the time, is it ok for them to waste others? Maybe ones who just barely have the time? Maybe the ones kicking don't have the time either?

It always seems to be about the time of those who don't care to watch videos, or anything, they are two busy. I mean a ten minute video is much longer than an hour of wiping right? And of course, those already clearing live in moms basement with no friends aside from their +10 Axe, so their time isn't as valuable... right?...

[Nadirah]

Except when learning to drive, you do read quite a bit on it, and maybe watch a few videos and see other people doing it all prior to doing it yourself, the same applies here. I can't tell you the amount reading a guide, and then watching a video has helped me understand a fight whereas I'd have no clue what to do.

When I learned to drive there were no videos. You got the book from the DMV, the manual that came with the car, and your parent or other teacher lecturing you, step by step from the passenger seat.

And you popped the clutch. Repeatedly. *shakefist*