JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[Isius]

I stopped helping/stopped caring to help other people I do not care for in this game more then a year now. After all the messed up things I have seen in this game, and no I won't openly help people out again. I am actually surprised I am still playing this game honestly.

But yes at one time I did used to help out any random stranger, and I loved doing it, but after meeting purely stubborn people that think they play thier class "perfectly", unwillness to take advice from others, blame others for thier lack of competent play, people using others for thier own selfish needs, and jealously toward others that can do content that they can't, even when those players offer a helping hand to them, but instead is meet with childish rages, and also those that want to be completely carried in all content with no effort on thier part on anything. I have lefted several FC's because of this stuff.

This type attitude only helps to create, I hate using these words, but a divide between casual/hardcore player base where each side will outright belittle eachother over the smallest of things, and neither side has any willingness to let go, and give up on some ground. Where they are not blinded by thier own bias opinions.

I don't know about the JP/EU server base. But NA majority of players just want instant gratification with very little work, effort, determination put into anything. But instead wait for content nerfs, gear catch up mechanics, carries where content becomes meaningless to do. While it loses the meaningful reward it had for doing it in the first place.

Let's be real in NA it's all about the ME, ME, ME complex that divides our community.

[Irie]

All I see in this thread is two factions pointing fingers at each other and yelling "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT! THEY'RE THE BAD ONES!"
"Elitists" vs. casuals all over again.

[Craiger]

All I see in this thread is two factions pointing fingers at each other and yelling "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT! THEY'RE THE BAD ONES!"
"Elitists" vs. casuals all over again.

Well, one of the problems is that the more casual players and the ones you call "elitist", end up in the same groups too often...

Japan is one country with the same culture and the player-base there can easily split into group with the same goals. If you make a group for early on practice, then most players that join will have similar knowledge and motivation as the one who created it... and same for kill/farm groups etc. Which makes it a lot easier to be patient.

The problem isn't that NA/EU players aren't good enough, it's that the wrong players group up with each-other.

If casuals grouped up with other like-minded casuals, and hardcore raiders grouped up with other like-minded hardcore raiders, we would have a much better functioning raid community.

EDIT: How to more easily find like-minded players, I have no idea though...

[Odett]

Maybe those DPS would perform better if they were helped rather then tossed out like trash cause they cant perform. (insulted, vote kicked etc)

Now sure i have read my fair share of "they refuse to learn" topics on this forum but I'm more willing to believe that people simply are not willing to teach and rather just blame others for not getting better on their own.

No one should be insulted, but if a DPS isn't performing up to par in endgame content and they are getting in the way of a clear, why shouldn't they be kicked? If you step into savage mode doing less than 600 DPS as a player, that's on you. There are COUNTLESS online resources to help you with your rotation and not reading up on your rotation or asking for advice BEFORE raid shows laziness and lack to take responsibility for yourself.

Learning a fight is a completely different animal, and I agree that players should be more patient when it comes to this. Many players forget that they were there too, and as a whole, this community could learn to be more patient (unless you make a farm group, then people are expected to know what they're doing). The problem often lies not in lacking patience for people learning a fight, but for people who don't know a fight AND don't know how to play their jobs. Even if I teach you your correct rotation, how can I expect you to perform it correctly AND deal with a fight whose mechanics you are unfamiliar with. High DPS in Savage mode is not a luxury to make the fight go faster, it's downright REQUIRED to clear fights. I understand that many people are hands-on learners and a video of a fight may not help them, but please do your homework before stepping into endgame raiding by learning how to play your job. It's not my responsibility to teach you how to DPS in a fight where everyone has to be on their toes, that's something you should have done on your own, and blaming others because you failed to hold yourself accountable for your faults is not cool to the 7 other people you're playing with. It's a lot easier to say "but no one will teach me, it's not my fault" after getting called out for your DPS rather than taking it as a learning experience and check out the myriad of resources available to you.

[AlphaFox]

Main issue with most people is once they progress past the learning phase they feel everyone should be on thier own level and that is not true. So many times and rarely do you run into people on my server who will try to keep the group together but they are quickly over-run and outvoted on the kick/abandon. Just different mind set of people wanting instant gratification and nothing less.

[zosia]

You know what JP players do in spades that NA players don't? They take responsibility for their play. It's widely known at this point that players on the JP server treat grouping up with strangers much differently that NA players.

JP players go into group content practiced and ready to down what ever they queue up for. NA players? Nah, not so much. You either practice, prepare, and know your rotation (elitist) or you want to do things your own way. When people want to do things their own way, it's only a logical extension that they will use under performing rotations, have to be spoon fed fight strats, and play poorer due to a lack of practice.The JP players are better because they don't expect to be given their rewards at the expense of others. NA players don't care about other people's time. All this blame shifting in this thread to get rid of the concept of personal responsibility. If a player is bad, it's their responsibility to improve or sit on the side lines. If a player can't get a group or kill, it's time to make your own group, join an FC, join a static, join an end game LS, or just give up and realize you're not cut out for this content.

People just like to make excuses:
"I don't like endgame players, they are such meanies, waaaaah!"
"I don't have time for X, Y, or Z, waaaah!"
"I have been irreversibly triggered by being told I suck, waaaah!"
etc etc etc

There are all types of end game groups from weekend raiding statics full of professionals with families to bleeding edge raiders who raided every day for 5+ hrs. People manage to maintain families, careers, homesteads, and a high level of play in FFXIV. If you have some excuse as to why you can't play at a high level in FFXIV, one of the most casual MMOs in the genre, the problem lies with you and no one else. Understand that fact. Own it. Improve. Stop using the elitist raiding straw-man as a way to dodge the fact that improvement and learning fights are a personal responsibility.

[Devils_Lawyer]

snip

The selfish mentality goes both ways unfortunately, people who has things on grind don't want first timers cause its a waste of their time and first timers want to sneak into farm parties as to not waste time themselves.

Which is why there is a very small number of learning groups in the PF in general.

No one should be insulted, but if a DPS isn't performing up to par in endgame content and they are getting in the way of a clear, why shouldn't they be kicked?

Some people might not know that their dps is bad cause the only means of checking that is considered a TOS violation.

Not to mention that people wont exactly explain to the person why they decide to kick them out so in the end they are left in the dark wondering what just happened and not knowing that their performance was not up to par.

[melisande]

NA/EU Attitudes SUCK on this game. 1.0 I so much more enjoyed my stay on Gungnir, a JPN server >.< wish i never switched.

[Hayward]

Scarecrow assault

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

[zosia]

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

Since you have trouble reading, let me digest that post for you.

tl:dr They are not entitled to our time. They should group up together, create their own parties, befriend end-game FCs or LS. I provided plenty of solutions. Just like a typical player in this game, you want OTHER people to do the work for these 'eager learners' not willing to work for themselves.

So, when you're ready to actually discuss the systemic problem of casual entitlement, please check your poor understanding of fallacies at the door and address the issues that drive good players away from wanting to play with these poor disenfranchised masses waiting to learn content.