Fishing... we need to talk.

[KupoSan]

I agree with some of these points and disagree on others.

On "too RNG based", I'm in near complete disagreement. All the RNG-heavy fish are completely optional - there's little or no market for them (and, in fact, the hardest to catch aren't even tradable). You fish them up because you want to catch 'em all - that's it. Making them easier to catch undermines this achievement, bigtime. Filling out your fishing log is a test of patience and persistence, and that's just how it should be. For the majority of "commercial" fish (useful, sellable fish), there's usually a lure or bait or location that makes fishing them up in large quantities easy; we don't need any additional methods for "focusing" on such fish.

I appreciate your insight! I do not want the achievement undermined. You misunderstand. I want more options to be able to catch these fish or reducing the RNG factors that play a role. For example, Anomalocaris is one fish I have yet to catch. So far, there has not been Clear/Fair weather at 8:00 game time in Coerthas since I went to bed last time and got home from work. Looking at the tracker, it won't be up as far as I can see (I can see up to about 4 hours in the future for weather). The times that I have the right weather and time window, it's rare to get the storm rider HQ to mooch to get a chance to get it. Then, it doesn't necessarily have to be my fish. It can be a NQ regular blind manta... or it could tug heavy and be my fish IF RNG wills it to reel in. Do you think this is fair in terms of comparison with other facets of this game? Yes, the fish is 'optional' (I have problems with that term, but that's another time and day), but is it okay for me to have 1 or no chances to get it a day? I want these odds increased.

I agree that finishing the log should be a momentous achievement! However, I disagree that it should be as random as it is. Make it grindy or make it difficult... but don't put useless restrictions where I only get one attempt every 24 hours. Another poster above commented on how we don't want Fisher like Botanist or Miner. Well, I have news for you... this whole game is copy/paste. All tanks have such similar moves with reskins. All healers have similar moves with reskins. All crafters have same moves baring one or two, but the process and concept is the same. So to say we want to be different in a game where it prides itself on equality doesn't really match up here. That's another point I'm making... make it *fair* with the others. Let it be a viable option.

To those who feel I'm whining... you misinterpret my passion. I'm not complaining that I can't catch these fish. I'm giving an observation and critique of fishing as my experience of big fishing, regular fishing, pre and post Heavensward, to stimulate debate and to hopefully make some QoL changes to make Fisher even better. I want to see more people out there fishing, not saying, "It's boring. It has no purpose." If a FC member wants me to make bouillabaisse, I have to fish Rothlyt Oysters and Razor Clams. Let's say she is a Botanist and agrees to get Desert Saffron and Dzemael Tomatos. She wants 20 food total. By the time she has gathered 20 of each of her two ingredients, I'll be lucky to have 5 of each of mine. VERY LUCKY. In a copy/paste world where there is supposed to be balance... I don't see it here.

[Shadygrove]

My fishing credentials are actually on my fisher alt: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1417349/

Every pre heavansward fish. Someday I will get her into 3.0.

I have miner and botanist 60.

1, No, just no. I do not want fishing to be any more intense than it currently is. Intense is furrymint and clary sage.

2, I consider a feature rather than a bug. In XI they had the subaki (sp?) rig that could catch 3 fish at once, I wouldn't mind something like that here.

3, Yes too RNG based but my viewpoint is different than yours.
Weather is a minor thing.
Weather > weather is for very few fish. So few that it hardly concerns me.
Bait. I wouldn't mind if more bait could isolate more fish. I like your log idea but I don't think it will be implemented.
Mooching is OK so far. Mooch > mooch? I try for the frilled shark for funsies and gil. And the challenge.
Not 100%? Wait, the 100% catch rate is unrealistic and I think its why we can't isolate more fish through bait. Having big fish escape is part of the challenge.

And you CAN catch them all. It takes time and patience. Not the skill, but RL patience.

4, Total agreement.

5, You touch on subjects that we have been told are off the table. As to the usefulness of fish, see fishbots. We have gatherbots available. Turn off your addblocker and visit any FFXIV related site.

Your suggestions:
A) No. Same as 1, above.
B) Wouldn't mind, don't expect to ever see.
C) Bobber is an interesting idea but call it fish oil or something.
D) Yes on the TP costs, don't really see what you are getting at with the rest.
E) Tacklebox we have been told isn't happening. If they give us a quick desynth it will come with a nerf like quick synth. Implement something like Belly of the Beast from XI.
F) Bait on chocobo yes, desynth on chocobo? I can't see that happening.

[KupoSan]

Interesting points, Shadygrove. I remember the sitabaki rig as well. I don't want to make fishing "intense" but I'd like more options when fishing, or have more that I *could* do that doesn't make it to where people can't just cast and reel. If you want to do that, go for it. If not, allow us to have more options should we choose. I know you *CAN* catch all the fish, but I feel it needs to be tweaked. As I said earlier, I'm only missing 6 fish to be complete. I'm nearly done, so why do I care? I'm passionate about the job, and I want others to be able to enjoy the fun. Instead, they turn around quicker than they can because of it's pace and it's "boring." It may be great for you, okay for me, but a good chunk of players find fishing boring and don't touch it anymore.


I just did a search for Botanist... 200+. I just did a search for Miner... 200+. Want to know what happened when I did a search for Fisher? 19/200. I know their search features aren't as good as FFXIV, but this is an indicator that something is... fishy? *ba dum tis!*

I understand things have been discussed, i.e. tacklebox, and are "off the table." But, because we are told something isn't going to happen doesn't mean it CAN'T happen and that we should simply give up. Where in the history of the world would we be if people were told they couldn't do something and believed it, not trying to rise above and make things better? Yeah, I'm going out of bounds a bit, but I'm trying to convey a point that I don't want to give up on our tackleboxes.

[Highwilds]

Fishing isn't for everyone, and even with adjustments it will most likely stay as "tedious", "boring" and "a time sink" as it is already and drive people away after a few tries. The new abilities fisher got are a nice addition, but they don't make fishing any less of a time sink since it's still RNG. And RNG is what fishing excels at! So instead of trying to make Fisher appeal to everyone by asking things to alleviate it, you should focus to it yourself and enjoy it as you have this far. The whole point of fishing (excluding the handful of fish in crafts that retainers can bring) is to have something to do and have a ton of achievements for your time. To me fishing is like the gathering version of the Gold Saucer. All nice things that have no "real" value. :P

[Aoxaviar]

Current Journey - I worked Fisher to level 50, still don't have all the Pre-Heavensward fish, but I have walked into Ishgard with my fisher so I can go after the Heavensward fish.

I personally don't agree with everything you have brought up.
1. Fishing is fishing. I know the grind is a royal pain in the *!*!*!*!* butt some (or most) times, but that is fishing in real life as well. I personally think it stems more from the fact of total quantity in a majority of fishing holes in game which all seem to provide 8 to 10 options each, for a total of 16 to 20 fish to catch. At this point, no way to fix that.
2. Fishing is restrictive - yes and no. Like you point out, you can't pick your fish, but in real life you know where the better places are to catch particular fish. Personally I think my #1 point is more the reason that fishing is restrictive than your RNG arguement since the RNG is built against how many fish are in the fishing hole with the bait your using, and not specific to a fish type or bait type. No way to fix this at this point.
3. My adventurer hasn't gotten around to learning these skills yet. He has been getting his crafting skills up while working desperately on a FC airship predominately solo (I am aware it isn't the best excuse, but due to RL responsibilities I am a casual player and weekends is pretty much all I get online.)
4. I will totally agree that Fishing is the one real class/job that will kill an inventory, including a retainer's inventory(s) depending on how many you have.

Ways to Fix/Content to Add:
1. Leave the time the way it is. This won't do anything in the long run of the game.
2. I like the idea of being able to "choice catch" but not after the first fish. I would be more behind a system that provides a bait log that holds the percentages of how baits work for each fish. This would also help eleviate inventory problems by allowing players the ability to not have to hang on to every bait in game.
3. Reduce RNG - Not going to happen.
4. Player skills - don't have them, but I am always for them being less CP/GP/TP to use my self.
5. I have always been "pro tacklebox" since it has first been brought up. instead of it being offhand, or a key item slot - add a tab between crystals and key items that is bait only allowing us to keep 25 of our favorite baits on us at all times. Again not sure how easy this would be to add to the game, and Yoshi-P has told us repeated that space is always an issue.
6. Anything that isn't allowed on a chocobo by now is a huge oversight by the Dev Team and needs to get fixed ASAP.

Additional Suggestions:
1. Farmer's Market/Fish Market:
The Dev Team really needs to deal with what I will refer to as the last major economic breakdown in game - gathering and culinarian on the NPC market. Yes, we can gather and sell between players on the marketboards and sell to NPCs for not near enough gil as it relates to what we spent to gather the raw mat ingredients. It also really bothers me that we, as players, have no way to work with the bringing in of foodstuffs. I really think this could be fixed with having a Famer's Market style hub in game that would have specialty vendors who would pay more than the going rate for specific things. It would also allow for adding new/expanding Challenges to the Challenge Log and Daily Quests for gathering and crafting as well.


Another Post in this thread:
"Rufalus
Maybe they could add an npc who takes your fish of a certain size or rarity in exchange for prizes like bait/lures and glamor fishing rods and clothing. Just thinking of some kind of fishing reward that doesn't rely on you having culinarian desynth skill. Oh, and consumables like aether tickets and magicked prisms could be offered so we still have things to exchange our fish for after we've obtained all the glamor pieces."

I would like to see this NPC as the Rowena of the Farmer's/Fisher's Market and allow for Scripts, Tomes, Glamours, etc.

I know some of you will call out Talon and Rising Star in Mor Dhona, but they require specifics for increasing your knowledge base in 2.0. I would expect that 3.1 or 3.2 will find them relocated to Idyllshire for the 3.x progression of crafting and gathering.

2. More Open World NPC buyers (item specific is fine with me):
I like all of the races out on the open world map. What I don't like is that the market is pretty one sided with how we deal with them.
- Why don't the Beast Tribes have dailies for gathered items?
- Why don't the various races and even poachers have needs that we can fill.
After all, we do fight them and kill them, but when we craft and gather, unless lvl's match up, they do leave us alone. Don't they have any needs we can fill?

3. Horizontal Storyline Continuation through other classes/jobs:
- Idyllshire is building up, why can't we help by gathering mats and crafting stuff?
- Forgotten Springs needs help (or so it seems if you have done the SSQ line through there.)
- We have cooked for the Sultana. When are we feeding the Admiral and SeedSeerer?
- Personally, I want to run a Pirate's bar for a day (ET time, not RL Time).

Ok, I am done

[UknowUknow]

Your credibility and credential is telling me that you fished 1 big fish Pre HW, and picked up fishing after HW. All this wall of text really makes you a fool.

1. Fishing takes a very long time.

MIN/BTN seem faster because you hit a node, collect, and move on. Did you forget the CD time for the next spawn?

2. Fishing is restrictive. Taking from Point 1, I cannot choose the fish I want. I cannot choose if I want to make it HQ 100%.

With the Patience action you can make the base fish and all mooched fish HQ. Not 100% but it's close

3. Fishing is TOO RNG BASED.

That is the appeal of FSH.

4. Our abilities are crap.

Patience action is like the second coming of Jesus for Fishers. I'll just leave it at that. Patience tooltip: Increases the chance of landing an HQ fish by 50% while reducing hook efficiency by 40%. Obviously the hookset offset the 40%.

5. Inventory is trashed.

IF you are just starting to fish, THE MAXIMUM inventory space you need for baits is 1 slot. That is 25 baits. Do some organization and planning, it helps a lot.

As for the tackle box, making baits and lures key items should do the trick.

[Ashkendor]

II'm in agreement that some of the FSH abilities aren't well thought out. Chum is an excellent example - there's almost never a good reason to use Chum, and it's WAY too expensive for what it does. Another peeve of mine is the fact that you can no longer use Hooksets when Patience wears off, in spite of the fact that the catch rate penalty for Patience persists. I can see no good reason for this.

Chum is useful on fish with short windows that are straight catches. There's quite a few big fish that it works on.

My biggest complaint with big fish isn't getting them to bite - it's how many of them escape once they do. Nepto Dragon got away from me 25 times before I finally landed it. That was three or four days of fishing for it every single time it was open while I was online. It was to the point where I couldn't even really be happy about landing it when I finally did - basically, all I felt was relief that the frustration was over. I just feel like the hook rate is absurdly low on some of them even now with our higher stats. >.<

[KupoSan]

Your credibility and credential is telling me that you fished 1 big fish Pre HW, and picked up fishing after HW. All this wall of text really makes you a fool.

Your comments are always welcome, but I think the negative comments towards my personal character are a bit much. It'd be appreciated if you left the name calling out. Logic implies this is false regardless. I won't feed the trolls. Please feel free to post what your credentials are. If you are more qualified, that's awesome. I'd love some more fleshed out responses from you minus the negativity. I also edited my post incase you misinterpreted it, although that doesn't affect credentials.

1. MIN/BTN is faster, regardless of how you time it. Hop on my server with me and let's race. First person to get 100x of an item wins. I'll grab 100x oak logs, and you can grab 100x black eels. By what you're telling me, you are going to keep my same pace. That's not going to happen no matter how hard you try.

2. You even agree with me knowing it's not 100%, and we aren't talking about mooching specifically. Patience doesn't cause you to magically fish up the one type of fish you are going for.

3. So, through my questline, I don't remember any NPC or any person presenting FSH job as the highlight, or even a main facet, being completely random... it could be there, but I don't remember. This is an appeal?

4. The abilities we got are nice, but they need tweaking. If you don't feel that way, that's your personal opinion. No worries.

5. One inventory slot, better hope you don't watch to catch all the fish at every fishing hole in the area because you'll need to go back and get more.

Thank you for taking the time to stimulate the discussion.

[Tint]

1. MIN/BTN is faster, regardless of how you time it. Hop on my server with me and let's race. First person to get 100x of an item wins. I'll grab 100x oak logs, and you can grab 100x black eels. By what you're telling me, you are going to keep my same pace. That's not going to happen no matter how hard you try.

the number of items doesn't matter. yes, the fisher is slower. so slow that you better use a fisher retainer than fishing for yourself most of the time. but if you need so much time you can sell the fish for a higher price. or you could, in a world without fisher retainers... if you can get the fish much faster it will destroy the market for the last few fish wich sell for an okay price and this makes the fisher even more wothless. have seed this just a few weeks ago. before retainers were able to bring blie cloud corals the price was around 8-12k. now after they can bring them the price is only 1-2k. not worth the time anymore. when were you the last time farming mats for culinarian with your botanist wich he can only use in one single recipe? or low lvl stuff? look at the market, i don't want to fish for 100 gil / fish o.o/

[KupoSan]

Exactly, Tint. If the market were better, fish worth more, or if we had an alternative fish system turn in like me and someone else posted, we wouldn't need a long downtime. I couldn't agree more.