Would Clemency by OP as insta cast?

[winsock]

Tanks and healers dps. Would you consider it stepping on damage dealers' toes? No. They help. The same goes for healing paladin.

Please explain how a healer or tank DPSing steps on toes? The role of a dps is primarily to maintain high dps for an encounter. This means knowing your rotation, where to stand, etc. How does healer and tank dps prevent a dps class from keeping their dps high for the fight?

Healers also have bigger mana pool. If paladin would beat you to heal, so what? The target gets healed faster, which is better, and healer would still had to press the button so in sense it isn't wasted mana coz it was already required.

The "so what" part is that a paladin isn't a healer. I'm not saying clemency couldn't, I'm saying clemency shouldn't. You also never answered my question from earlier so I'll ask again. what would you consider to be stepping on healer's toes? Also, what would be the smallest buff you could give clemency to make it OP in your opinion?

On the other hand Clemency in its current state is far from optimal as it's effectiveness starts and ends with anecdotal stories when it sometimes works. Should you press the button, should you not press the button, well healer is going to heal it anyway... oh whoops the guy just died.

Tanks and healers have tons of responsibility I see no reason they couldn't share it.

Ah okay, so what do you propose healers should get in order to tank bosses or provoke or make big pulls etc?

[Archaell]

I consider damage dealers to be responsible for killing mobs using their tools effectively. Tanks and healers don't step on their toes, but it is same kind of logic as paladins stepping on healers' toes. How does healing paladin prevents healers from keeping party members alive? It doesn't. Unless you are worried about parsing heals. In which case it could be considered stepping on healer's toes... but I can't see how that matters. It is not like paladin has a party wide healing debuff or anything.

Smallest buff to make clemency OP? Tough question. I'd say give it one second cast time and heal the whole group.

For your last question... Have you ever had a tank with poor enmity management skill? I have tanked too many things for my taste. Paladin isn't the only class with healing abilities, do you get offended when classes use self-healing abilities? I don't think so. Your point of view about paladin doing something healers should do seems like a tank getting angry that party members use enmity reduction abilities, because it is tank's job to keep enmity high enough without needing help.

Or why not keep clemency as is but make it uninterruptible?

That would be a good start, but I doubt it would make the skill significantly more appealing.

[Launched]

How does healing paladin prevents healers from keeping party members alive? It doesn't. Unless you are worried about parsing heals. In which case it could be considered stepping on healer's toes... but I can't see how that matters. It is not like paladin has a party wide healing debuff or anything.

Clemency conflicts with healers because it has a cast time. If you overheal because of Clemency, someone wasted a GCD where they could have been doing damage. It's not like DPS where every bit of damage helps towards enrage, people have limited HP and 2 people trying to heal the same person will waste resources (GCD on PLD, GCD+mana on healers). It's fine in cases where you precast it to land right after a huge amount of damage like a tankbuster, but trying to heal after an autoattack or trying to heal a DPS that got hit by an aoe is just a waste in most cases.

[CookieMonsta]

Or why not keep clemency as is but make it uninterruptible?

[Ralvenom]

Or why not keep clemency as is but make it uninterruptible?

This alone would make it better.

[ArdorGrey]

This alone would make it better.

one of the big problems with just making it uninterruptible wouldnt affect at all is the fact that it forces an already low dps class to burn a gcd doing no damage and further clip into their next gcd. I'd rather see if get a much faster cast time than completely eliminate the minor amount of skill involved in making sure it doesn't interrupt(as a 1-2 second cast as opposed to 3). I also like the idea of making half or all its potency a hot, that would further distinguish it from other self heals, fit the whm-ish flavor of the plds casting side, and frankly hots are damn awesome and giving one to pld would really up their "defensive tank" appeal while reducing healer toestepping and not actually boosting the classes raw power much.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

one of the big problems with just making it uninterruptible wouldnt affect at all is the fact that it forces an already low dps class to burn a gcd doing no damage and further clip into their next gcd.

WRONG we arent a dps class, we are a tank class.

But gawd our dps as a tank class is terrible.

Of course the thread is about clemency, which using it is a definite dps loss.... unless you died.... which is a worse dps loss.

I don't mind the cast time being a GCD. It bothers me that it does clip into the next GCD and that it can be interrupted during those Oh s&*t moments. You can also make all of this work to your advantage too. Cast your clemency during the cast of the incoming tank buster - timed right your cast is not interrupted, you get smacked by tank buster, your clemency goes off and you are back at health.

Not disagreeing that the optimum use of clemency is ridiculously situational (see also the history of the use of Fracture in a Monk rotation), but the same can be said for Tempered Will, and Cover and to a lesser degree Divine Veil and Awareness. Paladin has so many situational skills anyway, you may as well embrace the quirkiness of the class. It truly would not surprise me if this was "working as intended".

[ArdorGrey]

WRONG we arent a dps class, we are a tank class.

But gawd our dps as a tank class is terrible.

I never said pld was a "DPS". I said they were a low dps class. but congrats?

[Nadirah]

Clemency conflicts with healers because when they see me casting it, they expect it to actually go off, and when it doesn't, they need to scramble.

[Archaell]

Okay I have thought about clemency "not stepping on healer's toes" that would go well with defensive tank.

One second cast time. Paladin and the target share 50% of healing for 10 seconds. It could also provide a small shield.

Now if you would see somebody dying you would pop it up and any heal that would heal you would also heal the target for 50% and any heal that would heal the target would heal also you for 50%. Basically the healer wouldn't risk to wipe the tank while saving somebody else.