Suggestion: Make MSQ instances decrease dificulty based on first time players

[Archaell]

All the players should be allowed to experience the story - once.

Instead of nerfing content for everyone, I think it would be better to nerf it only when there are new players doing it to allow them smooth progression.

Any subsequent run should be more difficult, as the instance is no longer needed for story progression and players should know the basics.

In my opinion it is better to scale the difficulty based on players in the group, rather than scaling it down for everybody just in case there would be someone new.

[ElHeggunte]

I think the current system with the Echo works just fine. Instead of assuming new players are going to suck and need their hands held from the start you need to give them a chance to prove they actually require help first, which is exactly what the Echo does. I would personally be pretty pissed if I were about to do a trial for the first time and the game took me aside to tell me it was going to nerf the difficulty right from the start just because I'm new. If it's going to do that it might as well just cut out the gameplay all together and just show me a cutscene of me beating the boss.

It'd be like playing a new console game and wanting to start on Hard (or I guess Medium in games where Hard and above has to be unlocked), but the game is like "Nah, this is your first time playing so I'm going to make you play on Very Easy first", completely disregarding the possibility that I might have decades of gaming experience that would allow me to take the plunge. That would make me flip a table. What it should do is offer to lower the difficulty if it thinks I'm dying too much (which is exactly what the game does right now), but at no point should it force me to let it hold my hand.

Likely the only reason SE is even adjusting certain duties in 3.1 (which is what I'm assuming is what prompted this thread) is due to a wildly disproportionate amount of wipes or drops in comparison to all the rest, even with the inclusion of the Echo. I've never personally had any real trouble with 99% of this game's content, but I'll trust SE to er... trust... their own collected data on this one.

[Velhart]

Not all new players want everything handed to them.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I would detest this as a relatively new player myself. By coddling players in such a manner, you practically guarantee they won't be ready to tackle the actual difficulty spikes. Having cleared Titan HM a bunch over the last few days, my thrill came when I first managed to dodge all his mechanics, save one, which I self healed through. Learning on the go, challenge and all is what made it fun.

[Archaell]

...

The current system with Echo clearly does not work if we are getting nerfs.

I also trust SE with their data, but I also trust their data can't include why do failed duties happen.

Not all new players want everything handed to them.

That's true, but the issue is that when content gets nerfed - it is nerfed for everyone.

...

Yet again if we nerf encouters players are even more certain to be unable to handle the difficulty spikes.

[Felis]

You do the MSQ instanced battle and win? congratulation
You die? Don't worry. Here, let me buf you a bit with the Echo for your next try.

If this is not enough to do the instanced story battles there is still the option to level up to the max. level of the instance and to upgrade a bit the gear.

The current system with Echo clearly does not work if we are getting nerfs.

Some dungeons and primal fights get nerfs, not instanced story battles.
I think SE should just put Echo also on dungeon wipes.

[Archaell]

Some dungeons and primal fights get nerfs, not instanced story battles.

Of course my concern is mainly about trials and dungeons.

[Gilraen]

Content gets nerfs because they are old, not because noone's clearing them. There are exceptions (like Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius) but that's it, they are exceptions due to ramped difficulty (especially Pharos Sirius... I never could beat it originally as healer). Square learned from those dungeons, though, and have released content with a mind towards difficult fun instead of just difficult. But the older content gets the fewer people that run it, making that difficult fun potentially just difficult. I mean, how often have you run Amdapor Keep lately?

I would say that is more of a problem with insufficient rewards rather than difficulty itself.

Point still stands, what have you done for Keep lately?

[Archaell]

Content gets nerfs because they are old, not because noone's clearing them. There are exceptions (like Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius) but that's it, they are exceptions due to ramped difficulty (especially Pharos Sirius... I never could beat it originally as healer). Square learned from those dungeons, though, and have released content with a mind towards difficult fun instead of just difficult. But the older content gets the fewer people that run it, making that difficult fun potentially just difficult. I mean, how often have you run Amdapor Keep lately?

I would say that is more of a problem with insufficient rewards rather than difficulty itself.

[SchalaZeal]

The current system with Echo clearly does not work if we are getting nerfs.

The 51-59 dungeons, Ravana and Bismarck HM, do not have echo. So yeah, it's not "not working even with echo". In fact I know of no story mode dungeons that have echo.

Stuff that has echo: old Coils, (pre-HW) HM primals on death after 3 minutes, (pre-HW) EX primals on death after 3 minutes, solo story instance after 2 deaths, class quest instances after 2 deaths.