Lord Of Verminion (Collecting Minions)

[zosia]

I still dont trust that minion website you are referring to. Its numbers may not be accurate, but that is not the point of this thread anyways. I'mnot trying to argue the sales side of things. The whole point of my original post was to give SE feedback on ways other players might be given the chance to fully enjoy upcoming content that would otherwise be denied them. I am merely imploring SE give folks other "fair" ways to buy these digital items that they can not get through SE's official channels due to them being out of stock or out of print. Since the digital codes for the minions included with merchandise did cost people money then it stands to reason that the digital codes should still cost others some kind of money too if they were to be sold digitally. Therefore it is fitting they be sold on the cash shop instead of being in game rewards.

Edit: This is why I dont trust that website --> http://i.imgur.com/b4mmj1X.png
It is not accurate and pretty much states such.
Source website: http://www.xiv-minions.com/statistics.php

No stat is ever 100% accurate, but it's definitely representative, especially since we are talking relative comparisons (IE wind up bahamut to wind up tataru). I doubt those stats would wildly fluctuate if the entire game population was surveyed. Over 200k accounts is a pretty robust sample size. But, as you said, it does not matter.

SE has repeatedly said that the retired minions will not provide any OP benefit, people can still fully enjoy the content. I am all for bringing back the OST minions to the OST, it was dumb they were retired in the first place. However, there are people who paid for the merch just to have the minion, it would not be very fair to them to just toss them all in the cash shop. I am also convinced that SE sells more merch because of the exclusive minions. If people can afford a game subscription, I am sure they can afford to save up a few bucks every month to buy the merchandise.

I am in full support for SE to stop this stupid business of retiring item codes and making LE runs of merch that is not easily available world wide.

[Krylo]

No stat is ever 100% accurate, but it's definitely representative, especially since we are talking relative comparisons (IE wind up bahamut to wind up tataru). I doubt those stats would wildly fluctuate if the entire game population was surveyed. Over 200k accounts is a pretty robust sample size.

It's a self selected sample size of people who care enough about minions to go to that site, and attempt to search with their character--thus adding that character and their minions to the database (mine is on there as of 5 seconds before posting this--and all the minions I own did, indeed, increase by 1 grabbing my own character profile and having the site sync it from the lodestone).

What this means is that the site will show a larger percentage of people owning rare minions, etc. than the population at large because it's not a randomly selected sample. It's a deliberately selected sample made up almost entirely of people who want rare minions.

[zosia]

It's a self selected sample size of people who care enoughabout minions to go to that site, and attempt to search with their character--thus adding that character and their minions to the database (mine is on there as of 5 seconds before posting this--and all the minions I own did, indeed, increase by 1 grabbing my own character profile and having the site sync it from the lodestone).

What this means is that the site will show a larger percentage of people owning rare minions, etc. than the population at large because it's not a randomly selected sample. It's a deliberately selected sample made up almost entirely of people who want rare minions.

Right, but my point was mostly about relative comparison. All these people interested in minions show that the cash shop minions are unpopular and are owned about the same amount as the merch minions. If we did an actual blind survey, these stats would probably go even lower since we would be taking into account people who don't care about minions, let alone merch/cash shop minions.

If anything, the site provides stats on people who care about minions. Taking the general population into consideration, most people I encounter don't care about minions and I would bet real life money the stats would reflect that by showing an even smaller % of ownership for cash shop minions.

I highly doubt there is this silent majority hiding from the FFXIV minions site that purchased all the store exclusive minions. If what you are saying is true, that the site traffic is mainly people interested in rare minions, that probably means the % shown on the site are over represented and the % of total owners of both cash shop and merch minions are much lower than what we are seeing. Either way, the site stats are somewhat representative or the actual stats are much lower and only serve to prove my point further. If cash shop minions were popular, we would see a higher ownership % on a minion enthusiast site.

[Krylo]

My point was mainly that surveys that rely on people volunteering into them on their own are never really considered statistically accurate.

You make some good arguments for why, in this case and in this specific argument, the site's statistics may be accurate enough to be relevant, however. And I'm the type of person who only cares about specific minions some times so I don't really have a huge stake in whether limited time minions go up for sale on mogstation/become obtainable in game.

So, in short, I concede your point.

[zosia]

My point was mainly that surveys that rely on people volunteering into them on their own are never really considered statistically accurate.

You make some good arguments for why, in this case and in this specific argument, the site's statistics may be accurate enough to be relevant, however. And I'm the type of person who only cares about specific minions some times so I don't really have a huge stake in whether limited time minions go up for sale on mogstation/become obtainable in game.

So, in short, I concede your point.

I think they should put the preorder minions in the cash shop for sure, I think the cait sith doll is one of the absolute coolest minions (in my top 5 for sure) in the game that was only available for preordering. As the cycle of player attrition and new subs continue, that iconic FF minion will become more and more rare.

[Vespar]

I really detest the "I bought X merchandise w/ minion therefore only I should ever have it" attitude. I bought a lot of SE's merchandise that just so happens to include minions and yet here I am lobbying for those who couldn't get one because it was sold out or otherwise unavailable to them through official channels or the code became unusable so even if they could get one now, they cant use it..

Why is it so bad that others get a shot at a digital item that they didn't have access to? That is really all I am lobbying for here.
Is that really so bad?

To be honest if the codes attached to the merchandise didnt have expiration dates and they could assure us all that this merchandise would become available again at a later date on ALL the e-shops for ANYONE to buy, I wouldn't even have created this thread. The point of this thread was to lobby for other means to obtain the same minions in the same fashion (purchased) without the need for the physical merchandise. If SE makes more money off the sale of a those minions on the Cash shop. then good one them, I hope the funds continue to support the game!

[zosia]

I really detest the "I bought X merchandise w/ minion therefore only I should ever have it" attitude. I bought a lot of SE's merchandise thatjust so happens to include minions and yet here I am lobbying for those who couldn't get one because it was sold out or otherwise unavailable to them through official channels or the code became unusable so even if they could get one now, they cant use it..

Why is it so bad that others get a shot at a digital item that they didn't have access to? That is really all I am lobbying for here.
Is that really so bad?

To be honest if the codes attached to the merchandise didnt have expiration dates and they could assure us all that this merchandise would become available again at a later date on ALL the e-shops for ANYONE to buy, I wouldn't even have created this thread. The point of this thread was to lobby for other means to obtain the same minions in the same fashion (purchased) without the need for the physical merchandise. If SE makes more money off the sale of a those minions on the Cash shop. then good one them, I hope the funds continue to support the game!

I am all about fairness. I agree that the codes should not expire and that they need to make this merchandise more available to non-JP players. It's not fair to ask that a minion that people might have paid a lot for be put in the mog station for a fraction of the price. I think it's silly JUST to buy the merch for the minion, but there are people who do that. That's why people resell this stuff on ebay without the code for a large discount. I really think arguing for the removal of expiration dates and rerunning the promo codes into the OSTs is a better idea.

Not sure where you got the "I bought X merchandise w/ minion therefore only I should ever have it" from. I don't think anyone has said that in this thread.

[Vespar]

I feel it is more than fair that the minions be available on the cash shop. Regardless what one person feels is a justified cost for an item or whatever their reason for buying the merchandise may be there is no reason that both customers cant be happy and get what they want. If someone wants the minion but not the merchandise why shouldn't that be an option? Or if someone sees value in the combo of merch+minion why cant they have it that way? Or even just Merchandise without the code. Customers love options. So why not give them that?

All Im asking for is for options like this so everyone gets a fair shot at the digital items. Not to mention the folks who are just buying the merchandise for the code buy up all the product and those that actually wanted the merchandise may not get any because it sold out. (Which has happened to me on more than one occasion at TGS!)

[Morningstar1337]

Not sure where you got the "I bought X merchandise w/ minion therefore only I should ever have it" from. I don't think anyone has said that in this thread.

I implied it with my first comment on this thread, based on the opinions I have after seeing the various topics regarding event items (sort of different since they actually are on the cash shop, but it wasn't always the case, see: xiii collab event) but I don't think I seen anyone commented on this yet that hated this idea (maybe they thought it will die in obscurity), then again there was the comparison war with that minion site...that you had with Vespar

[zosia]

I feel it is more than fair that the minions be available on the cash shop. Regardless what one person feels is a justified cost for an item or whatever their reason for buying the merchandise may be there is no reason that both customers cant be happy and get what they want. If someone wants the minion but not the merchandise why shouldn't that be an option? Or if someone sees value in the combo of merch+minion why cant they have it that way? Or even just Merchandise without the code. Customers love options. So why not give them that?
All Im asking for is for options like this so everyone gets a fair shot at the digital items. Not to mention the folks who are just buying the merchandise for the code buy up all the product and those that actually wanted the merchandise may not get any because it sold out. (Which has happened to me on more than one occasion at TGS!)

What would be the point of the promo minion if it was not part of a promotion?

You want a skewed shot, one that favors your position. A fair shot would be to have the promo codes redeemable without an expiration date and to make sure that it will always be included with certain merchandise purchases.

This game is not designed to be 100% completed, it's an endless treadmill with content all over the map. Just like I have to live with an incomplete TT collection, so to will people learn to live with an incomplete minion collection.

They have never revisited any of their promo items thus far. SE knows digital promo items move physical units, if they just move all those promo items to the cash shop, they will sell less units of physical goods. I already linked you data that shows the cash shop minions are not commonly owned, they are downright unpopular. Adding any promo minions to the cash shop would not bring in this huge flood of money in. Less than 5% of the player base buy these things to begin with. It's more advantageous for SE to keep these items as their intended purpose, promo perks for buying merch.