Void Ark to drop Esoteric parts for upgrade why?

[CosmicKirby]

I don't get why people are complaining about this now. Has everyone forgotten when ST gave the upgrade items for tomestone gear months after the second coil had it? And then there was the weekly CT quest to get similar items as well. Coil/Alex raids have the incentive of you get a headstart by several months and are likely doing it with people who you are friends with.

I think a key distinction here, is that way, waaaaaaay more players this time around can't complete the raid content because of difficulty. There's an even more polarizing gap in difficulty between what raiders had to go through, and how easy it will be to get through Void Ark/CT.

You don't have to agree with it, but I'm sure you can at least understand why players would be disheartened that a reward so difficult to obtain that they fought months to get it (or haven't even gotten it yet), suddenly becomes passe in an instant.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

[/I]

I think a key distinction here, is that way, waaaaaaay more players this time around can't complete the raid content because of difficulty. There's an even more polarizing gap in difficulty between what raiders had to go through, and how easy it will be to get through Void Ark/CT.

You don't have to agree with it, but I'm sure you can at least understand why players would be disheartened that a reward so difficult to obtain that they fought months to get it (or haven't even gotten it yet), suddenly becomes passe in an instant.

What I am saying is all these sorts of things is never going to stay exclusive based on the game's track record. There's always going to be nerfs and catch up patches because you can't assume that A) everyone WILL do the raids or B) everyone can finish the raids quickly enough before they become irrelevant.

[Ibi]

I think a key distinction here, is that way, waaaaaaay more players this time around can't complete the raid content because of difficulty. There's an even more polarizing gap in difficulty between what raiders had to go through, and how easy it will be to get through Void Ark/CT.

The counter-argument being that with waaaaaaay more players unable to clear the raid, it's even more important to make the upgrade items available to those players as soon as possible, especially since they should be done with Esoterics already, leaving that as the main route of gear improvement for them.

[CosmicKirby]

What I am saying is all these sorts of things is never going to stay exclusive based on the game's track record. There's always going to be nerfs and catch up patches because you can't assume that A) everyone WILL do the raids or B) everyone can finish the raids quickly enough before they become irrelevant.

Right. I'm not saying that this shouldn't be done. I'm pointing out that, compared to previous instances of CT giving catch-up loot, a lot of people getting the loot are going to be raiders that have been banging their heads against a wall for months.
If anything it highlights how poorly done AS has been so far.

The counter-argument being that with waaaaaaay more players unable to clear the raid, it's even more important to make the upgrade items available to those players as soon as possible, especially since they should be done with Esoterics already, leaving that as the main route of gear improvement for them.

I wasn't making an argument. I was trying to point out why I think some people, myself among them, are a bit disappointed that the gear is going from ludicrously difficult to obtain, to absurdly easy. I'm more upset that there wasn't a middle ground to be had, not that I'm upset about there being a much easier route.

[Ibi]

I wasn't making an argument.

Counter-point then, rather than counter-argument.

I was trying to point out why I think some people, myself among them, are a bit disappointed that the gear is going from ludicrously difficult to obtain, to absurdly easy. I'm more upset that there wasn't a middle ground to be had, not that I'm upset about there being a much easier route.

What kind of middle ground would you have considered reasonable?

I guess I'm not sure I understand being disappointed or upset about this. I've been in various different points of raiding progression when the alternate methods of obtaining upgrade items have been introduced:

My group for Second Coil had been butting our heads against T8 for weeks (after butting our heads against T7 for weeks) when ST/Hunts first came out, and I was glad there was a way to obtain gear I didn't currently have access to, to make working on the rest of Second Coil less of a struggle.

I changed to a different group for Final Coil, and we'd already cleared T13 when WoD came out, and I was glad there was a way to more quickly obtain items that didn't rely on competing with the rest of my static.

That same group, now in Alex Savage, cleared A3S for the first time a few weeks ago. We've only put in a couple of hours in A4S, so it's unlikely we'll have it cleared by 3.1, but I'm still not sure I can fathom a reason to be disappointed that there's an alternate route by which to obtain those items.

[CosmicKirby]

What kind of middle ground would you have considered reasonable?

The same mid-core level that many people have complained is seemingly absent in Heavensward. The Normal FCoB that required people to actually raid, but wasn't as demanding as Savage. Rather than the 2 polar opposite modes we have from Alexander, (particularly A3S and A4S).

WoW got away with 3 tiers of difficulty, one for the sight-seeing and experience, one for people who want a raid to play through with a dedicated group, and one for people who are truly looking for a challenge. As it is now, Savage is part of that second group for A1S and A2S, and just immediately jumps to the third group. The itemization rewards and difficulty really screwed over the players in the second group.

The typical pattern, that raiders had access to this better gear for a couple of months of ready isn't quite present, considering that A3S' substantial difficulty blocked what I feel is a majority of raiders from ever getting that gear.

In short, A3S is a bad fight, and it's making me feel more upset about Void Ark giving out ostensibly the same loot.

[Gaiussenpai]

That's funny most people who have cleared as3 and or progressing on the last part of as4 consider 3 a supeiror fight and should have been at the end and four is garbage.

[Ibi]

The typical pattern, that raiders had access to this better gear for a couple of months of ready isn't quite present, considering that A3S' substantial difficulty blocked what I feel is a majority of raiders from ever getting that gear.

If you're currently working on, but can't beat, A3S, you'll gain access to i120 head, body, and legs with 3.1.

Three out of the twelve equipment slots.

Who cares what gear anyone outside of your static does or doesn't have? Never mind that raiders will likely still be the only ones with access to i210 weapons and will still be the only ones with access to Gordian armor.

[Miscreant]

Oil of Time & Sands of Time were added to the Hunts NPC in 2.3, one major patch after the addition of the Second Coil of Bahamut.
Carboncoats & Carbontwines were added to the Hunts NPC in 2.5, one major patch after the addition of the Final Coil of Bahamut.

Gobcoats & Gobtwines being made more available in 3.1 isn't any different from what happened in the past.

Umm they did te same thing to every hunter remember? ppl hunted there bums off to get blood marks to upgrade from i100 to i110 them boom they added it in ST like candy.Not saying it was right but SE likes doing this

Sands and Oils with the hunts in 2.3 were a joke, but it was the first time it was implemented so it's understandable, when they came to ST it was fine, it had been enough time. I didn't have too much of a problem with the Coats and Twines being added to the hunts in 2.5, they required a large time investment which made it fair. As I have said multiple times, I have no problem with them being added in 3.1, only that there is some effort required to get them and that they aren't handed out like hot cakes.

Why should people be handed relic weapons now when I had to work for mine back in 2.0?

Your being serious aren't you? I think the fact that 210 gear is relevant right now and that the Relic from 2.0 isn't make these a tad different, not that I agree with the Relic being nerfed, but the Relic was a time sink, there's no skill in that.

In short, A3S is a bad fight, and it's making me feel more upset about Void Ark giving out ostensibly the same loot.

I couldn't disagree more, A3S is one of the best designed fights since T9, it mixes things up from phase to phase making the fight interesting, as opposed to say T13 in which all of the phases were similar. It just requires a lot of attention from all 8 party members and a considerable amount of raid awareness.

That's funny most people who have cleared as3 and or progressing on the last part of as4 consider 3 a supeiror fight and should have been at the end and four is garbage.

Yeah A4 is bad, it wouldn't surprise me if it was designed by the same team that brought us Mog Ex -_-

Because from 3.1 to 3.2 is shorter than from 3.0 to 3.2

You must have been the top student in your maths class...

[CosmicKirby]

If you're currently working on, but can't beat, A3S, you'll gain access to i120 head, body, and legs with 3.1.

Three out of the twelve equipment slots.

I would have rather had the fight been more reasonably tuned so that my group could have already cleared it despite trying for several months in a row by this point.
I think it's hard to overstate how much of a spike in difficulty A3S is compared to A2S. That's the problem I have, and that problem contributes to why I am upset about the situation.

I couldn't disagree more, A3S is one of the best designed fights since T9, it mixes things up from phase to phase making the fight interesting, as opposed to say T13 in which all of the phases were similar. It just requires a lot of attention from all 8 party members and a considerable amount of raid awareness.

The disagreement is mutual. I feel that it is easily the worst designed fight I've seen in an MMORPG. It's difficult for all the wrong reasons, and the spike in difficulty from the previous 2 encounters compounds on this.